Triumphs From Fear

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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby gwarrior2013 » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:51 pm

What ever you do, don't forget that Samurai Jack's sword can't kill the pure of heart.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Tenshi Nova » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:53 pm

Welcome gwarrior. Read the rules, and please enjoy your stay.

Feel free to read the ongoing discussions too. The counter theory is that Sam may believe her cause is righteous. Meaning the sword can harm good when the wielder is good.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby The Creator » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:19 pm

Wow, just putting this out there but if we do view those three celestial beings again and we can assume that DeeDee is there because it either involves her or is her job, what happened to Bunny? She is definitely in heaven, unless she has a similar personality to Jeff in Grim Tales (not saying they are connected), wouldn't all this commotion going on with her sisters bring her around?
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Blood Lord » Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:29 pm

The Creator wrote:what happened to Bunny? She is definitely in heaven, unless she has a similar personality to Jeff in Grim Tales (not saying they are connected), wouldn't all this commotion going on with her sisters bring her around?

Only if it was her job.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Havoc » Fri Nov 15, 2013 2:44 am

If Bunny ever does come back, I want her to be a normal PPG, with average or above average intelligence. Maybe she's one of the four guardian spirits (that is if there is a "four guardian spirits" thing in PpGD). I would like to see her on the side of evil. I think it would be an interesting turn of events if the lost fourth sister, came back to life as a villain.

Blood Lord wrote:You know, I want that sword to hurt/kill Blossom just to see reactions.

I bet its going to be different because I don't think BR would keep going with it like this. We've all been predicting it, its easy to see. Perhaps this is a freebie on us then, or BR has different views on the workings of the sword and on the situation. Perhaps it will play out as we suspect, or not.

If the sword does kill anyone innocent, I would prefer it killed Buttercup instead, since Blossom has already had an out-of-body experience.

I notice sometimes, BR likes to choose an unforeseen option. Like when Blossom fired her eye lasers, we all thought it was either gonna hit Gir, or the bomb. But I don't think anyone predicted that she would cut the power to the tower. So maybe something else will happen here instead. Like someone/something will intervene before Sam has the chance to use the sword on Blossom (Oh god, I really hope not. I would really like to see this "sword debate" put to bed next page).
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby The Creator » Fri Nov 15, 2013 6:09 pm

The four guardian spirits thing sounds possible. I doubt its just Naga and DeeDee. Perhaps each represent the four corners?
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Krest » Fri Nov 15, 2013 8:13 pm

Bunny as...emo and evil? That actually sounds plausible.

Funny enough, if she did appear, she'd be as hot or hotter than Miss Bellum. And smarter than Dexter. And more powerful than Superman. Plus, she'd be the Black Gem of the Gems in Steven Universe.

Because making one of the worst characters ever made into one of the most OP characters in existence is totally something I'd expect from this comic.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby BeeAre » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:08 am

Spoiler: The Sword works like it did in Samurai Jack's show. That's not the important part of this page, or even the next one. That is the predictable part you guys are discussing.

The important part will be what happens after the sword's nature is revealed.

Think... moral loophole.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Sigment » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:23 am

Blood's prediction is sounding more plausible now.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Havoc » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:01 am

Which one?
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Sigment » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:42 pm

Blood Lord wrote:The sword isn't subjective to the wielder like that or it would always work for "good". The side you stand on is the "good" side, in your mind, and your rival/opponent represents the "evil" side, even if the situation is the opposite.

For example, if the ethics were situational, then Aku could have killed Jack with it. Instead, that didn't happen, showing that the sword has its own parameters of operation and scale of judgement.

Prediction-wise, that Sam's motives would be considered pure enough for the blade to harm Blossom. (could be wrong, but I believe this is what he meant)
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby zeldafan61 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:04 pm

the appearance on dee-dee in the last panel as well as the appearance of grim leads me to beleave that dexter may step in with the knowledge that he is a mech genius. but then again anything could happen. but I hope that dexter come's since it's his girlfriend who's in danger ;)
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Sigment » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:07 pm

I don't mean to sound offensive, but nothing in that post made sense.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby zeldafan61 » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:09 pm

Sigment Kurosai wrote:I don't mean to sound offensive, but nothing in that post made sense.


just asking because you didn't quoto anyone's comment did you mean my comment?
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Havoc » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:22 pm

Yes he meant your comment, he just didn't quote it because it was right above him. Like what I'm doing now.

Sigment Kurosai wrote:
Blood Lord wrote:The sword isn't subjective to the wielder like that or it would always work for "good". The side you stand on is the "good" side, in your mind, and your rival/opponent represents the "evil" side, even if the situation is the opposite.

For example, if the ethics were situational, then Aku could have killed Jack with it. Instead, that didn't happen, showing that the sword has its own parameters of operation and scale of judgement.

Prediction-wise, that Sam's motives would be considered pure enough for the blade to harm Blossom. (could be wrong, but I believe this is what he meant)


Sam's motives seem far from good at this point, I don't really see that sword working for her. Sam wanting to commit such a heinous like kill someones sister in cold blood, just to see them cry, would probably render the sword useless for her. But then again, we don't know enough about Sam at this point.

I think next page, the sword will do as predicted, and glance off of Blossom's neck, just to reveal it's nature to everyone. My question is: How will everyone react to it? Would they know right away the moral restrictions of the sword?
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Krest » Sat Nov 16, 2013 2:56 pm

Sigment Kurosai wrote:
Blood Lord wrote:The sword isn't subjective to the wielder like that or it would always work for "good". The side you stand on is the "good" side, in your mind, and your rival/opponent represents the "evil" side, even if the situation is the opposite.

For example, if the ethics were situational, then Aku could have killed Jack with it. Instead, that didn't happen, showing that the sword has its own parameters of operation and scale of judgement.

Prediction-wise, that Sam's motives would be considered pure enough for the blade to harm Blossom. (could be wrong, but I believe this is what he meant)


Blood disagreed with the idea that the sword would work just because Sam thought her cause was righteous. He used Aku as an example - saying that Aku thought HIS cause was righteous yet he wasn't able to use the sword.


If we're still talking about moral loopholes, as BR stated, then there's still this concept:

Sam's cause IS righteous, not because she thinks it is, but because the sword believes it is. If we take this into account, then Blossom would be considered evil by the sword and she can, thus, be killed by it. This would also explain why the Celestials summoned Grim - because they might disagree with the sword and would want him to kill Sam before she could kill Blossom.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Sigment » Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:01 pm

Krest wrote:If we're still talking about moral loopholes, as BR stated, then there's still this concept:

Sam's cause IS righteous, not because she thinks it is, but because the sword believes it is.

Which is what I meant. Just didn't phrase it well enough to make that clear.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby tonightscake » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:25 pm

Since when was Sam's cause righteous?
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Tenshi Nova » Sat Nov 16, 2013 10:46 pm

Tell us how it's not.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Blood Lord » Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:03 am

tonightscake wrote:Since when was Sam's cause righteous?

Righteous is the worst way to have described that. I'd say "good" with the quotation marks.

It has to do with the cause of belief but also the intent there of behind the action which will determine to a person if their action is good or not. A horrific example would be the Holocaust. Some really did believe it was for the good of the people and a benefit. Thus their actions, viewed by themselves, is not a thing of evil, but a thing that must be done for the good of the world and society.

So to take that here, its the idea that Sam believes her cause is "good" and thus the sword will work in her favor because she believes this as being good.

While it is an idea, it is one that I disagree with, and will touch on that idea later on.

Tenshi Nova wrote:Tell us how it's not.

Well... Okay.

In the pursuit of vengeance, but more so with revenge, such as what Sam is going through, there is no defined "right or wrong" in the way we are going about this. Pursuing vengeance/revenge is in itself a inherently evil idea that the person committing it knows they are walking a darker path to get what they perceive as theirs. In other words, they'd be aware of their wrongs, but don't care either way, they just want to see suffering. The desirement of the suffering of an individual is a evil moral, one that cannot be hidden by the intent of the being as the ends do not justify the means.

Furthermore, to dispel the idea that Samantha believes her cause to be just, she is very much aware and has stated, its darker purpose to cause misery and suffering. Thus she knows it is wrong, but doesn't care. She wants vengeance over a lost tooth.

To further this, Aku used Jack's sword against him, and we all know how that ended. Could it be that Aku was aware of the evil of his own actions and it didn't work, or that he was the manifestation of evil and no amount of goodwill could cover that stain up. With that in mind, and to add more confusion to this, the sword can't identify the intent or the moral alignment of Sam because she is a machine to this point. So like Aku, she is either aware of her own actions and the morality of it, or the sword won't react because Sam is a machine. Perhaps it will react because she is a machine.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Havoc » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:10 am

I'm starting to get that same feeling you got three pages ago, Blord.

Like I said, I feel like the sword won't hurt Blossom next page, since BR said the sword will reveal it's true nature. I wonder how everyone will react once/if the sword does fail to harm Blossom. What will they make of the situation, I'm gonna guess that they won't full understand the moral restrictions of Jack's sword, unless someone explains it. I wonder if it's possible if Jack could have told Buttercup about the properties of his sword at one time, but she didn't understand it. However, I don't think this is very likely.

Sam being a machine adds even more confusion to the matter, but despite this, I think the sword still won't work for her, especially if she still has a soul.

Also "moral loophole" may not only imply Sam, after all we have two other evil beings in the room. I'm wondering if someone (most likely Samantha or Buttercup) will try to harm Gir, and Bell will obtain the sword and be able to use it successfully, if she's trying to protect Gir.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Sigment » Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:32 am

Good and evil are artificial constructs whose meanings are decided by those who hold authority. In the end, there is no true meaning of right and wrong, those words have a different meaning to each and every person who exists in the world.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby tonightscake » Mon Nov 18, 2013 9:21 am

But wouldn't the sword's morality be based on the emperor whose soul was imbued within the sword when it was made? If the sword has some sort of independent consciousness, then it would see Sam more as a thief and bully and the PpG as the righteous ones. Unless it has a connection with the gods, I wouldn't see it finding Sam's cause to be righteous.
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Flippyroxshtf » Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:52 pm

jacks sword can't hurt the innocentXD
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Re: Triumphs From Fear

Postby Blood Lord » Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:05 pm

Well no shit, Flippy. We know this, WE'VE BEEN TALKING MOST OF THE DAMN THREAD ABOUT IT.
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