Once More Unto The Breach

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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Sigment » Mon Sep 09, 2013 6:34 pm

Speaking of Otto, he and Dexter mentioned Tachyon particles, or something. Something time-related.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Krest » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:04 pm

Blood Lord wrote:
Plus, we've been told this by BR

And Dr X in the comic.


1) Where? When?

2) Dr. X never said exactly what it would do. He made it very vague.

--

As for the Riley thing, I didn't say it IS NOT a time bomb. I just don't remember that being 100% canon.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby The Creator » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:31 pm

He did mention Tachyon Particles.

"A tachyon or tachyonic particle is a hypothetical particle that always moves faster than light." - Wikipedia

In works of fiction Tachyon particles are released during or after time travel and can be used to establish instantaneous communication.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby ari-6 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:33 pm

Krest, people believe it to be a time bomb because everything supports that it is. Why would doctor x send his daughter to set off an explosion that she would be the closest to. I am sorry but sometimes I feel as though you question things for the sake of confrontation. Unless you are implying that it does something other than explode that has nothing to do with time? In which case could you please explain?

Personally my theory is that it will tear open a portal in time so that someone may return to the past and retrieve something and the bomb on the moon will create a portal to return through. This is completely unfounded and I can not explain it, it was just the best I could come up with on such short notice. sorry.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Blood Lord » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:37 pm

Krest, do you really have that much trouble with insight into plot events or do you need it spelled out in every page?

Krest wrote:1) Where? When?

About everytime its discussed. Go to BR's profile, and search the word "bomb"
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=55025&p=3421282&hilit=+Bomb#p3421282
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7644&p=3397518&hilit=+BR+time+bomb#p3397518

Krest wrote:2) Dr. X never said exactly what it would do. He made it very vague.

Of course not. It'd be silly to say exactly what it did.

Krest wrote:As for the Riley thing, I didn't say it IS NOT a time bomb. I just don't remember that being 100% canon.

Insight, not saying it wasn't.

And yes, it is 100% canon that it has something to do with time.

Seriously, the hourglass shape should have been the first indication that it has something to do with time. The second would be the references made by by the bomb's prototype Bell detonated on the moon, and the comments made by people right before it went off and while it was going off.

The Creator wrote:He did mention Tachyon Particles.

"A tachyon or tachyonic particle is a hypothetical particle that always moves faster than light." - Wikipedia

In works of fiction Tachyon particles are released during or after time travel and can be used to establish instantaneous communication.

Fantastic catch. It took us a while to catch that as well.

Huh. The prototype also refers to itself as Project Tlalocan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlalocan

ari-6 wrote:sorry.

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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby ari-6 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:40 pm

Having thought about it for a minute my theory is that this bomb and the bomb on the moon create two parts of a stable time wormhole so that something could travel through the moon side and arrive at earth, bypassing all early warning systems.

Blood Lord wrote:Bro, you are the manifestation of Fluttershy in the flesh.

I do not know who that is. Is that a good thing?
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Blood Lord » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:50 pm

Fluttershy is a pony in MLP known for being shy, but also for apologizing all the time and fearful of infringing on others.

You have subconsciously embraced the character so well it scares me. It isn't a bad thing, just a very interesting thing.

As for the bomb, yup, sounds like that was some sort of idea to to bypass earth's defenses.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby MissTikilicious » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:55 pm

ari-6 wrote:I do not know who that is. Is that a good thing?

I like to think it's one of the better compliments out there. Now go watch My Little Pony so you can learn why it's a compliment.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Tenshi Nova » Mon Sep 09, 2013 7:55 pm

You are 'sorry' 24/7.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Krest » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:21 pm

ari-6 wrote:Krest, people believe it to be a time bomb because everything supports that it is. Why would doctor x send his daughter to set off an explosion that she would be the closest to. I am sorry but sometimes I feel as though you question things for the sake of confrontation. Unless you are implying that it does something other than explode that has nothing to do with time? In which case could you please explain?


By "time bomb" everyone thinks it will create a portal or reset things back to a certain point. I completely disagree. It's very possible that it affects time and space, but I believe the bomb is made up of two parts:

The first part, the initial blast, makes all of time and space vulnerable to a certain point.

The second part, which only works because of the first part, is a program - possibly a virus of sorts - that completely alters the universe in a specific area. This would mean that the world would be altered to be as Dr. X desires it to be. In other words, he'd create a world that he belongs in or else he thoroughly desires by altering time and space in a specific part of the universe - made possible by "opening up" that part of the universe and rewriting what happened there.

This way, no one needs to travel back in time. The world will just be completely different. In fact, Earth may operate under completely different Natural Laws if everything in the bomb's radius is still affected by the program after it finishes rewriting everything.


It's not simply a time bomb. It's a World Egg.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby ari-6 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:36 pm

I feel like you put a lot of thought into that. So you think Doctor x wishes to make a world in which he would be accepted. This fits in with the Tlalocan reference. I do like your theory but please forgive me, I would also like to expand on my own. "Someone somewhere looking at a monitor sees a swarm of cluster ships heading towards earth but just as he is about to sound an alarm, they vanish completely. Then two days later they appear in the center of Megavill. The blast that seems to engulf everyone is actually a sort of bubble and when it dissipates, we see the cluster". Then my idea gets very ambitious as the cluster take over the world and the remaining heroes try to resist them. I like both ideas but I especially like that yours speculates on Doctor x's motivations.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Blood Lord » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:38 pm

The phrase "time bomb" means that it is a bomb that effects time and space. The fact that you think everyone assumes that it means to create a portal or reset something is stupid. Don't put words in people's mouth like that.

And it is a time bomb, that's how its been described.
EDIT: To be more accurate, BR calls it a Linearity Bomb).

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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Breach » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:55 pm

Blood Lord wrote:

The Creator wrote:He did mention Tachyon Particles.

"A tachyon or tachyonic particle is a hypothetical particle that always moves faster than light." - Wikipedia

In works of fiction Tachyon particles are released during or after time travel and can be used to establish instantaneous communication.

Fantastic catch. It took us a while to catch that as well.

Huh. The prototype also refers to itself as Project Tlalocan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlalocan


Dr.X named his lair Black Eden. Maybe the bomb sends them to a certain place. Here gir refers to bombing 1 of the 4quantom-:

http://ppg.snafu-comics.com/index.php?comic_id=279

I searched "the 4 quantom" and got that he was referring to the 4 quantom numbers(even though most of the stuff I saw when searching how you'd bomb one referred to 3). I found this:

http://www.brooklyn.cuny.edu/bc/ahp/LAD ... os_02.html

Can't go into all of it but part of it said "Such an electron could not "spiral down" to destruction as predicted by the classical model because it could not lose energy in a steady stream. It was trapped by the fact that it had to lose a whole quantum of energy all at one time, and that was not easy, so it orbited continuously in a track around the center waiting for something to happen.

Adding a photon

What could change this picture was the arrival of a whole quantum of energy from some other source, and the best source was a photon of light.

If a photon of light made a direct hit on an electron, the quantum of energy the light was carrying would be transferred to the electron and the photon would cease to exist, it would vanish.

The newly energized electron would now have too much energy to remain in the ground state orbit, and would suddenly and spectacularly jump up to an orbit that was further away from the atomic center. These more distant orbits were called the excited states , and could only be occupied by more energetic electrons.

Bohr then gave considerable thought to the correct position of these "orbits". He assumed that they would have to be circular (like orbiting planets), and the position of the orbit would have to account for the fact that electrons have mass and are moving (so they would have angular momentum), and the energy they were carrying was "quantized" into chunks."

It said it would have to be circular,like a planet,and the light surrounded earth. Maybe Dr.X wants to move the Earth to a certain place or time? To what Black Eden was or could've been? I realize my conclusion and all of these other things might not match up since this "tachyon bomb" stuff is over my head, but reading what gir said made me want to look it up and I just went from the 1st thing I saw.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby ari-6 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:12 pm

So one Bomb on the moon and one on earth, to move them both. I like this idea too. But that does not account for why the bomb on the moon is bigger. Unless the size of the bomb has nothing to do with the size of what it is moving. The diameter of the effected range could equal the distance from the bomb on earth the the bomb on the moon after one lunar orbit. But this is just a guess based on your theory, I did not understand the science'y stuff as much.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Krest » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:16 pm

Breach - you are officially one of my favorite Snafu people.

Thank you for that post. It's one of the most intelligent posts I've seen on here. Period.

--

If what Breach said is the actual process Dr. X is aiming for, the bombs may have been placed so that the Earth and its surrounding area mimicked the atom. That way, things would "spiral down" as if Earth was just like an atom.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby BlueSquadronRaven » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:21 pm

Oh, man, delivering a piledriver just screams Buttercup, does it not? Nice work!
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby ari-6 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:23 pm

Krest wrote:If what Breach said is the actual process Dr. X is aiming for, the bombs may have been placed so that the Earth and its surrounding area mimicked the atom. That way, things would "spiral down" as if Earth was just like an atom.
I am sorry, but... WHAT?
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Krest » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:27 pm

ari-6 wrote:
Krest wrote:If what Breach said is the actual process Dr. X is aiming for, the bombs may have been placed so that the Earth and its surrounding area mimicked the atom. That way, things would "spiral down" as if Earth was just like an atom.
I am sorry, but... WHAT?


To make it simple: Things would go boom.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby ari-6 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:29 pm

Things are not going to go boom! Nothing about this is that simple.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Krest » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:31 pm

ari-6 wrote:Things are not going to go boom! Nothing about this is that simple.


I didn't mean the events were simple. One possible version of the "boom" would be erasing Earth's existence completely. Since it's only the electron that spirals down, I'm not sure as to what the "boom" would do. But most likely, something will get completely destroyed under Breach's explanation.

--

For the most part, all Breach did was show a possible way the bombs would work - not directly say what the bombs would do.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby ari-6 » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:37 pm

Breach wrote: Maybe Dr.X wants to move the Earth to a certain place or time? To what Black Eden was or could've been?
I am really not sure that was Breach's theory. Think about it. Saying the earth would be destroyed is the same as saying the bomb will explode. It is the most cliche evil plot and nothing Doctor x has done suggest that this is his goal.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Cerulean » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:37 pm

@Breach Wow. That explanation makes so much sense. One thing that I just want to add is that the bomb also relies on the usage of the Earth's gravity well. So as the light is expanding (or becoming excited) it is traveling along the curvature of the gravity well. Just something minor to add c:

@Krest You're also forgetting something that Otto (Who is a Time Squad Agent) said in this page. He said that what was occurring was something called a Stop-Gap. As was deduced previously (By Blood Lord I think in the Predictions Thread) a stop gap dealing with time will most likely remove the people from this point in time, put them in another point in time, only for them to be placed back in their original time line. He (Otto) also said something along the lines of this possibly being the reason that the Time Squad exists. Not only is the bomb itself shaped like a hour glass (which deals with time), it is also the same shape of the world line of a tachyon that has been traveling in a vacuum at a constant acceleration (or a hyperbola (which has the same shape as that of a hour glass)).

The space won't be affected, but the timeline will somehow be affected.

ari-6 wrote:But that does not account for why the bomb on the moon is bigger. Unless the size of the bomb has nothing to do with the size of what it is moving. The diameter of the effected range could equal the distance from the bomb on earth the the bomb on the moon after one lunar orbit.


I always thought that it was bigger to compensate for the lack of a suitable power source on the moon. So the one on the moon has the source built into it. Since there is a source of power capable of producing an "explosion" on earth, it wasn't necessary to make it as big. Could be wrong though.

Blood Lord wrote:Huh. The prototype also refers to itself as Project Tlalocan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tlalocan


You know, now that you've brought this up, I've started to think about Naga again.
I'm just going to jot down some of the definitions from his title (mostly for my sake)

Naga Vicar of Resolution, Divinely Chosen Proselyte of the Great Azure Dragon and Heaven of the East

Naga wrote: Of Sanskrit and Hindi origin meaning Snake

Vicar wrote:a representative, deputy or substitute; anyone acting "in the person of" or agent for a superior (compare "vicarious" in the sense of "at second hand"). In this sense, the title is comparable to lieutenant
In Depth

Resolution wrote:firm determination

proselyte wrote:a person who has converted from one opinion, religion, or party to another, esp. recently.
In Depth Here

Azure Dragon wrote:The Azure Dragon is one of the Four Symbols of the Chinese constellations. It represents the east and the spring season.
In Depth Here


Ok now to take into account the definition of the Tlalocan
Tlalocan wrote:described in several Aztec codices as a paradise, ruled over by the rain deity Tlaloc and his consort Chalchiuhtlicue

The bomb was placed in the sea of tranquility, which, according to Dr. X should have been "poetic". This is what was located further down at the bottom of the page you quoted:

Tlalocan wrote:In the East "is the place known as apan, the waters ... . Apan is a great lake or sea in the underworld that is united in its depths with all the waters of the surface of the world. In its depths live atagat and acihuat[l], the lord and lady of the waters. The acihuat[l] is often identified with the llorona or weeping woman of folklore, who ... is always found near sources of water weeping”. ... In the depths of apan are cities ..., and ... souls – once they have passed out of the north at the end of the first year of death – seek out ... this region."


One more thing to note is that in a map of the lunar mare of the moon, the Sea of Tranquility is also located in the East (if you are on the moon). There seems to be an abundance of focus on the East.

Here's something on the god Tlaloc himself:
Tlaloc ruled the fourth layer of the upper world, or heavens, which is called Tlalocan ("place of Tlaloc") in several Aztec codices, such as the Vaticanus A and Florentine codices. Described as a place of unending springtime and a paradise of green plants, Tlalocan was the destination in the afterlife for those who died violently from phenomena associated with water, such as by lightning, drowning and water-borne diseases

He was also known for demanding child sacrifices.

I think the point that I was trying to make had something to do with Dr. X being well aware of Naga appearing on the moon. Whether he really is associated with the Great Azure Dragon, or if he is the Lieutenant of the god Tlaloc, is a question I wanted to bring up. If his name was given based off of its meaning, then he could very well have been planning on sacrificing Bell to Tlaloc (since he was being nice to a perfect stranger (Dr. X was also adamant that she return immediately since it wasn't healthy)).

I feel like I'm really close to discovering something, but I'm starting to get tired and can't really think straight.

Anyone else able to gather anything from what I've posted?

EDIT: Found this quote here afterwards:

In Aztec cosmology, the four corners of the universe are marked by "the four Tlalocs" which both hold up the sky and function as the frame for the passing of time.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Krest » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:46 pm

Hmmmmm...

--

Back when the 1 of 4 page originally came out, I thought the bomb was one of 4 going off at the same time in the same place just in 4 repeated timelines. The Stop-Gap, I thought, referred to this. The 4 going off at the same point in 4 overlapping timelines would then create the desired effect.

With Breach's theory, the "1 of 4" meaning has changed for me, but then what IS a Stop-Gap, exactly?
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby Breach » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:59 pm

A stop-gap is a temporary substitute. Aku sent jack far enough in time to where by then he'd taken over the world. A stop gap here might be Dr.X sending the powerpuff girls forward or back in time for about 5 minutes(considering that it could be 5minutes for them and actually have them return years after they left) and have them return in a place entirely ruled by Dr.X or the cluster. They would have to be replaced during that time with other people from whatever time they go to, to keep with the stop gap definition.

But that's just coming from an 8th grader-I might be wrong but I do know ideas like this might never come to me again.
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Re: Once More Unto The Breach

Postby The Creator » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:51 pm

if what you are saying is right, I hope we see more of Jack.
Poor guy, sent into the future by the bad guy not once, but TWICE.

It would be interesting if only the people around the blast or only the powerpuff girls are un harmed by the bomb and plunged into an future ruled By evil.Dexter should also be cyborg at this point, just because I think that would be cool.

though the one problem with this is that even Dr X did not know what exactly would happen with the bomb so it might be something else entirely.
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