The Weight of Lineage

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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby shadownerd221 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:52 pm

Looks like we were fooled. I thought Minnie shot but it was Mandy.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby DuncanWarlord » Fri Aug 16, 2013 8:02 pm

MANDY IS A BIOTCH
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby The Mad Doctor » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:36 pm

I find it strange that we only heard the snip of the line cut a few pages back. Is that sniper rifle silenced or something?
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Breach » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:57 pm

Yes.If you look closely at the gun in the 2nd panel,you can see where the silencer is covering the tip of the rifle
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Drago2552 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:38 pm

I am pissed
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Sigment » Fri Aug 16, 2013 11:56 pm

Why exactly are you pissed? Did something on the page upset you?
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby DarkKing » Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:13 am

It would suck to have Mandy for a mom. I'm glad that Minnie didn't shoot the line. Now I wonder if the story will stick with this or go back to Chi and Demongo.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Biocolor » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:02 am

What the fuck. That crazy son of a bitch just shot at her own son.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Tenshi Nova » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:20 am

Everyone knew Jr would be fine regardless. Mandy's not only capable of worse, she's probably done worse.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Nina333 » Sat Aug 17, 2013 7:06 am

Mandy took the shot instead of Minnie. What a surprise. I didn't like what Mandy said to Minnie except for not hesitating to get the things you want. Being assertive gets people what they want more than hesitation. Other than that, Minnie not taking the shot means she has some decency left in her since she didn't want her brother hurt. Mandy gives Minnie some depressing news on how Junior will grow more distant from her and leaves Minnie alone to cry. Mandy obviously has no interest in helping her daughter cope with her sadness and walks off to do something else. Mandy isn't a good parent since she just piled some depression on her daughter.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Blood Lord » Sat Aug 17, 2013 2:24 pm

Mandy showed Minnie the truth. It hurts sometimes and she knows that in order for Minnie to deal with this world, she's going to have to be tough, decisive, and at times cold. This is something Minnie is going to have to deal with and not something that Mandy is going to be able to help her with.

Mandy is actually turning out to be a better parent than I thought. she is ruthless, we have to keep that in mind. It's her nature and who she is. But the Underworld isn't any better. The council contains members like Him, Aku, and Walker (probably others). These are ruthless individuals, Aku being somewhat of an exception. They are going to be the type that donates to charities.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby CrimsonRaine » Sun Aug 18, 2013 7:20 am

Did Mandy just give a YOLO speech? o.O
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Tenshi Nova » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:52 am

idk, they are immortal.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby AnimeWannabe » Sun Aug 18, 2013 3:58 pm

I think Mandy is doing fine parenting, I mean as BloodLord said she is ruthless but you have to be in the world that they live in. It's either kill or be killed in that world, Mandy is showing the harsh reality that Minnie will be facing. Mandy's parenting doesn't look the best to us but we have to remember that we are used to normal parenting but they are under different circumstances, Mandy can't keep Minnie or Junior in a protective bubble because they would most likely get killed. They have to face the path they choose and deal with the consequences that will arise from their decisions.
I'm kind of hoping they go back on Chi, I'm curious about her but then again I do want to see more of Minnie or Junior and Mimi.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Tenshi Nova » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:18 pm

Just another thought on Mandy's parenting. We must all remember that Minnie had died, so Mandy being stricter with her is for the best. Minnie's body won't be growing, all Minnie has no is her mind and the limits of her body as it is now, and how it will forever be, unless alterations occur that we're not aware of as of yet.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Xi-1 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:54 pm

Mandy is showing her formidable, merciless bitch roots, and it is remarkable that she is treating Minnie no differently from anybody else given they are family. The world's ways are harsh indeed, especially those of the Underworld and its realms.

If you think about it, Minnie did not have any reason to hesitate in taking the shot in regards to Junior, since he cannot die. Instead the fact she did not take the shot means that she does not want Junior in that way badly enough to kill Mimi to do so, if Junior happened to mess up and the two of them hit the ground together. But most, if not all, here predicted wings were in the works. I would be surprised if Minnie and Mandy did not figure that part out ahead of time, Minnie especially since she would be most familiar with the Nergal symbiote's abilities, it formerly being a part of her. She hesitated anyway.

Mandy also knows that Junior can't die, but Mimi can, so Mandy's actions are clearly on Junior's behalf. Of course, Mandy could have been far more merciless and shot Mimi directly, perhaps even with a headshot. That would have probably brought on Junior's Berserker Rage, which would probably be very impressive considering how we saw him stand up to Mandy before, promising to take responsibility for Mimi.

I wonder if Mimi's human side was killed, but her body was left intact, would her demon powers return and revive her? Where would Mimi's soul go in the first place? Would the things she's done under influence as HER be taken into account, assuming she's still alive and all her actions can be judged, or only those while in human form? Even then, it's not like she did a whole lot on her own, as we saw in her flashbacks. So would HIM's plans be furthered by Mimi's soul travels? What is he hoping will happen? Ah, these great mysteries!

Minnie is falling more deeply into despair. It's the perfect condition under which to fall to the Dark Side, which seems to be her general direction ever since she died.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Yamitora1 » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:42 pm

Blood Lord wrote:Uhh, no. You're completely wrong on that. Go read the comic again or consider this question.

If Mandy was already dead and reaped by Grim, then how would she be able to produce any offspring?

Maybe Mandy is or isn't dead. In the original show Grim was born to parents, and in this comic he has a brother so there does seem to be a way for the dead/undead to bare children in some form. I mean its shown that Ghosts can have children, so there is a level of reproduction there for the living-impaired as they would say in Beetlejuice.

Grim being unable to mate with Mandy (at least for procreation, it did seem like he got something out of the honeymoon from how he talked in his diary.) Might be due to biological differences and an inability to breed between species. Two living skeletons might be able to produce children (one of which has a Caribbean accent), but a living skeleton and a person might be a whole different story.

I assumed, and I admit I might have assumed wrong, that Mandy was dead because, in the comic Grim came to Mandy to reap her. Its no secret that is his job, he reaps anyone who's hour glass has had its last grain of sand fall. By the time Grim had brought himself to finally act upon it, Mandy's hour glass had ran out long ago. He technically was suppose to reap her when she was still a kid, but he held off on it.

Now it would seem that he gave her the choice of marriage or death, but it doesn't seem clear if Grim had to fulfill his obligations as a reaper still, or if Mandy was spared because she married death.

Like you said, Mandy might still be alive and if true I'm more than willing to admit my mistake on that part. However, she is for certain not human, at least not anymore (morally it can be argued she never was human to begin with.)

Mandy use to have eyes as black and empty as the deepest pit within Satan's soul. Now they are as red and fiery as the brightest flames of hell and twice as piercing as the Spear of Longinus. She is no mortal, Grim even mentions the bonds of mortality were severed (and it would seem if Mandy had waited a second longer, it would have been her head getting severed instead)

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Now even if Jr and Minnie were to marry and have sex, nothing will happen. It's not Jr that is the issue, but Minnie. She's undead, and those bodily functions are so offline they don't even show up on the scanner. Literally she is an eternal Loli. She will never grow up or develop further if she continues to exist in the same state that she is in right now.


I didn't really want to get into the reproductive abilities of a little girl...but..

She's part Nergal demon, and as you said that could help with reproduction. Plus from what nergal said, all nergals are the same so it would be more or less a type of a-sexual reproduction and likely wouldn't result in the same problems inbreeding causes. Plus as I said, the undead seem to have some kind of reproductive ability.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Tenshi Nova » Sun Aug 18, 2013 8:51 pm

She's an non-aging doll. I highly doubt the possibility of Dr. Finkelstein making reproductive parts for Minnie.

As for your other thoughts on different ways to reproduce, I still doubt that there's a method for dolls.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Cerulean » Sun Aug 18, 2013 9:32 pm

I'm skeptical of Minnie being able to produce offspring as well. However, I did find something sort of interesting on the Jack Skellington wiki:

The official film soundtrack CD contains an epilogue not in the film, stating that "many years later" Santa returned to Halloween Town to visit Jack, where he discovered that Jack had "four or five skeleton children at hand" who play together in a xylophone band. Given the ending of the movie, it can be assumed that the children are Jack and Sally's offspring.


Either Jack used the same method Grim used when Junior was conceived, or Dr. Finkelstein did give Sally the parts necessary for reproduction (However, as Tenshi said, I'm not sure whether or not Finkelstein gave reproductory organs to Minnie or not). She'd probably have to have a serious upgrade as she ages (which I'm not even sure is possible).

Minnie was born part nergal, however (as far as we know) she no longer has any portion of the nergal symbiote residing within her.

http://grim.snafu-comics.com/index.php?comic_id=58

She is pretty much a rag doll/zombie now. She does still speak nergal though.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Dr. Mandalor » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:09 pm

Thinking outloud here.

Is it possible to create an older body for Minnie, and simple transfer (by Grim/Jr) into it like in the epilogue? Just food for thought on this whole Minnie not aging/having kids subject.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Cerulean » Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:39 pm

I guess it could be possible. From what I gathered from the "Epilogue" page, it would seem that at least some of Minnie's old body was used to create her current body. It could simply be a question of whether or not Dr. Finkelstein could get more body parts for Minnie's new body. Although I guess the question of "whether or not her new body would accept her soul" could rear it's head. Junior/Grim would also have to reap her again to get her soul out, which I'm not sure they would be up to or not (especially if there's that chance that a new body would reject her soul). Then again, according to Sally's wiki:

Sally is also known to be stuffed with fall leaves.

They could also go this route, although they'd still need skin.... After reading this, however, it boggles my mind even more to think how Sally and Jack could have had kids. Unless they "adopted" someone else's kids or perhaps made (literally) them. Well that or that she wasn't completely made out of leaves.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Blood Lord » Sun Aug 18, 2013 11:27 pm

Dr. Mandalor wrote:Is it possible to create an older body for Minnie, and simple transfer (by Grim/Jr) into it like in the epilogue?

The issue wouldn't be that the body is underdeveloped for reproduction, but that its dead and wouldn't be able to carry out the needed bodily functions to aid in reproduction. Now Minnie and Sally are "alive" in that fact that their soul occupies a body and can move it. But it doesn't have anything in it that would indicate that it is alive, like no pulse. There is that scene where Sally sows herself back up. I would imagine that the two (Minnie and Sally) are pretty immortal as long as critical damage isn't done to their body to the point where the strings holding the soul back in the body are broken.

I can't remember if we have seen Minnie have tears in her zombie body.

Cerulean wrote:Either Jack used the same method Grim used when Junior was conceived

I'm guessing that this is how all of the skeletons have been made.

Yamitora1 wrote:Maybe Mandy is or isn't dead.

You can reread back through the comic and see that Mandy is still alive and in an immortal state kept there by Grim. Recall that Grim (I'm going to be paraphrasing here, but the intent is the same) made a deal with Mandy; join me and be my wife, or get reaped and move onto the next life.
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It isn't a hypothetical question or something that can be subjective to the reader. It's a quite clear and obvious fact. Mandy accepted Grim as her husband and became immortal as the "bonds of mortality were cut". Grim didn't kill her, she didn't die. I suspect that the bonds are chains that are link to the hourglass and represent the limitations of mortality. Not to mention should she have died, her ability to have kids would have gone to nothing. She wouldn't have been able to reproduce in a dead body.

Yamitora1 wrote:Might be due to biological differences and an inability to breed between species. Two living skeletons might be able to produce children (one of which has a Caribbean accent), but a living skeleton and a person might be a whole different story.

Again, if we would take sometime to read the comic, you would recall that Nergal Sr clearly explained why he couldn't bear children.
http://grim.snafu-comics.com/index.php?comic_id=79
1: He is death. It would go against the very fabric and laws of nature for Death to bear children.
2: He has no organs to do so.

Now in regards to Grim's origin, I again side with the idea that all of the skeletal characters have been birthed the same way as Jr was. This point at least allows the multiple origin creations in the TV show to be able to work without an interference or conflict from any of them. This way he could still in inherit the role from his father or win it in a voting contest.

Yamitora1 wrote: Plus from what nergal said, all nergals are the same so it would be more or less a type of a-sexual reproduction and likely wouldn't result in the same problems inbreeding causes.

To a point. The only Nergals that we have seen so far, aside from Sr, is his son and Minnie, both of which needed a partner and could not of been the result of asexual production because a partner was used. An asexual organism would have the perfect genetic copy of the parent and look the same as the parent. However, we can see that the method used to create Minnie and Nergal Jr were results of sexual production as we can see it in the comic from being told, and from the physical traits of the Nergals.

I've already indicated that the Nergal symbiote would be a manner in which would aid Jr in reproduction by at least passing itself on. How much of that genetic material is also Minnie has yet to be completely seen.

Yamitora1 wrote:Plus as I said, the undead seem to have some kind of reproductive ability.

Of course they do, but it would be stupid to assume that they all can or that the resulting reproduction is similar to the creation of living sexual reproduction.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Havoc » Mon Aug 19, 2013 2:35 am

I've said this before but; Why Does Minnie even need to have that rag-doll zombie body in the first place? She almost seemed better off in spirit form.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby ari-6 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:04 am

Blood Lord wrote:I can't remember if we have seen Minnie have tears in her zombie body.

No. No tears as of yet. I would remember if something like that happened. That is not to say it will not happenin the future. Tears sounds like tears, which reminds me, Minnie is undead so is it even possible for her to cry?
As for why she did not remain a spirit? This is not one of the plains where spirits have physical forms. My guess is a ghost wondering around like they are alive would create problems. She could not really be heir to anyone and there would be no semi-incestuous skinship of which she is very fond and also no archery practice.
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Re: The Weight of Lineage

Postby Sigment » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:09 am

Given that a corpse would likely have non-functioning tear ducts, assuming it even had tear ducts... no. I wonder if the essence would allow her to form weapons in a similar way that the Nergal symbiote did.
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