New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Tenshi Nova » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:58 pm

Give a character a name and back story good enough, they become emotional props. They were never needed, they could be replaced, but the feels man. That's if we get a back story about her.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:09 pm

Personally, as someone who wants to take on story telling, I think a character death should be a last resort in creating drama. That, and if you must have a character die only do it if you can't tell anymore stories with them. Character death just seems to easy to me.
Now in responce to what that Biostar guy said what is Sam's purpose here. All I can gather is that she's meant as a rival for Buttercup. But she seems more like a punching bag. Buttercup has already shown that she can wipe the floor with Sam and she can do it without even trying. If Buttercup was going all out, Sam would be nothing but an oddly colored puddle with metal chunks floating in it. Even in the one instance when it looked like Sam had the upper hand it wouldn't have mattered I think because I still say Jack's sword wouldn't have harmed Buttercup.
So, Sam seems be failing at her one role, badly.
Outside of watching Metabots I don't really care that much about this Sam. She doesn't even seem like the same one from that show to me so she's just aonther villain with villainous goals to me. Frankly I want to feel something when a character dies be it sadness, joy or rage. Anything but nothing. In the "Red Wedding" of Game of Thrones I was surprised by the amount of "Meh" I was feeling. None of my favorite characters died so... so what?
There are so many characters running around now that its kind of hard to keep track. I blame the part from before BeeAre took over for that. Hell, most of the problems I have with PPGD are from before BeeAre took over. Sometimes as I look at these pages and read his usually long posts in these forums, I imagine BeeAre sitting at his computer thinking running his hands through his hair while typing out a script thinking, "How the hell am I going to get this to work so it makes sence."
It takes a lot of work to develope every character when the cast is so big and in this case its better to focus on the mains first and foremost.
I suppose there is some sympathy to be felt for Sammy. She's kind of a falure in this comic and she doesn't stand a chance against her "rival". I don't even really see the need to explore her backstory. A character like Bell or Sam all the emotional baggage you want, but this only makes them sympathetic, but (in my opinion) not as compelling or relateable. Bubbles and Buttercup in the context of this comic feel like more interesting characters in this comic and they've been taking mostly a back seat to Blossom's and Dexter's trainwreck of a relationship.
I think BeeAre said that he wants to write in bigger roles for the other two super powered sisters, so I'm interested to see how that will work out.

Also, last time I poked my head in here I took some issue with Blossom's dialogue in this particular page. BeeAre has since then assured that she's not upset because she's losing and isn't worried for herself so I'll just figured that either I'm reading it wrong or the spoken words on page could have been more clearer.
It just came off like she was apologizing for starting the fight in the first place to me.
But I doubt that was BeeAre's intention so maybe I just read it wrong or my brain jumped to some conclusion.

Holy shit that turned into a ramble. Sorry about that.
I'm just a weirdo who does that sometimes.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Tenshi Nova » Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:56 pm

Unless Sam's back story is a real tearjerker, or if she doesn't actually remain dead.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Havoc » Sun Jun 09, 2013 2:17 am

Damn Mad-Mutt, that's quite the post. But I can't deny the fact that a lot of it is very interesting.
Allow me to go over some of it with you.

Mad-Mutt wrote:I think a character death should be a last resort in creating drama. That, and if you must have a character die only do it if you can't tell anymore stories with them. Character death just seems to easy to me.

The matter of when a character dies, depends on how important you wish for them to be, plot-wise. I wouldn't say it should be a last resort, it's one of many options to choose from. It all depends on context in my opinion. I feel like a character should be at least somewhat established before you kill them off, if you want drama. Otherwise, there death will have about as much meaning as one of those red shirt dudes from Star Trek.

Mad-Mutt wrote:All I can gather is that she's meant as a rival for Buttercup. But she seems more like a punching bag. Buttercup has already shown that she can wipe the floor with Sam and she can do it without even trying. If Buttercup was going all out, Sam would be nothing but an oddly colored puddle with metal chunks floating in it. Even in the one instance when it looked like Sam had the upper hand it wouldn't have mattered I think because I still say Jack's sword wouldn't have harmed Buttercup.

I agree with everything you said there. But I have to wonder if Samantha has some sort of "final form". Something to give Buttercup a run for her money. Maybe Sam will put up a good fight before she dies, and make this not feel so one sided.

Mad-Mutt wrote: Frankly I want to feel something when a character dies be it sadness, joy or rage. Anything but nothing.
I'm with you on that. However I have the up most confidants in BR. Either joy or sorrow, I think we'll one of those by the time this is all over.

Mad-Mutt wrote:There are so many characters running around now that its kind of hard to keep track. I blame the part from before BeeAre took over for that. Hell, most of the problems I have with PPGD are from before BeeAre took over.

This clusterfuck approach is kinda the norm for a fanfic. Granted I haven't really read that many fanfics in the past. Also this is (from what I can gather from GT as of late) the norm for Bleed. But as long as it all ties in together in the end, I'm okay with it.

Mad-Mutt wrote: I suppose there is some sympathy to be felt for Sammy. She's kind of a falure in this comic and she doesn't stand a chance against her "rival".

At this point, getting her ass kicked doesn't really make her that 'sympathetic' in my book. She needs a back story, or some sort of reason for me to feel bad for her, otherwise this is her just desserts.

Mad-Mutt wrote:Bubbles and Buttercup in the context of this comic feel like more interesting characters in this comic and they've been taking mostly a back seat to Blossom's and Dexter's trainwreck of a relationship.

The way you feel about Buttercup and Bubbles in this comic, is the same way I feel about them in GT. The fact that they have taken a back seat to some train wreck, and I would love to know more about there lives. However I don't feel like Blossom and Dexter's relationship is a "train wreck" honestly. I've really enjoyed it, and I think I flows quite nicely. Buttercup has had a little time in the sun in this comic (ie. her kendo classes, cooking lessons, etc.), but I think Bubbles kinda got left behind a bit. Again, I'm confidant BR will not disappoint. I'm sure we'll get back to them eventually.

Mad-Mutt wrote:Holy shit that turned into a ramble. Sorry about that.
I'm just a weirdo who does that sometimes.

No that's quite all right. Like I said it was an interesting post.
However I must apologize if some of what I said either doesn't make sense, or if I contradict myself. It's very late, and I'm just trying to finish this post so I can get to bed.

Blood Lord wrote:Ohh, its not just Sam that will be dying.

Wait, what do you mean by that?
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Birdofterror » Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:09 am

Havoc751 wrote:The matter of when a character dies, depends on how important you wish for them to be, plot-wise.
Hell, in my story Death isn't even that much of a roadbump. For better or worse, they'll be back. You can bet your ass on it. I use death- not as a finale... but more as a framing device for story telling.

That said I have this terrible feeling that Sam is going to die and no-one is really going to care, which sucks because I loved her when she fought Buttercup for the first time. Crazy ass psycho tomboy robot! Now she's all crazy ass bug-robot who's been told she's going to die before it even happens.
Havoc751 wrote:I agree with everything you said there. But I have to wonder if Samantha has some sort of "final form". Something to give Buttercup a run for her money. Maybe Sam will put up a good fight before she dies, and make this not feel so one sided.
If this were to happen, I hope it won't be what I think... which is transformation into something grotesque and off-putting. Possibly going even more insane and becoming less 'character' and more 'monster that has to die because it's ugly.'
Havoc751 wrote:This clusterfuck approach is kinda the norm for a fanfic. Granted I haven't really read that many fanfics in the past. Also this is (from what I can gather from GT as of late) the norm for Bleed. But as long as it all ties in together in the end, I'm okay with it.
Well, Sugar Bits was the clusterfuckiest thing I've ever seen Bleed make, Grim Tales got pretty close at one point, now we are going kind of linear in its story... and the first saga of PPGD was kind of all over the place for the first couple of chapters, while Bleed was still establishing the characters and giving them all their backstories at the same time.

Once the story established a main villain at around chapter... what, 3? 4? It was kind of linear past that, Mandark and Dexter's rivalry with a little Powerpuff Girls sprinkled on top for flavor.
Havoc751 wrote:At this point, getting her ass kicked doesn't really make her that 'sympathetic' in my book.
I think he means- and I do feel that it's more the fact that a character with not that many motives, a personality that hasn't been fleshed out and a rivalry she completely failed to keep from being one sided is about to be simply killed off without accomplishing even a single thing in her entire career in this comic is kind of sympathetic.
Havoc751 wrote:Wait, what do you mean by that?
It could mean many things. The world could be destroyed... or... uh... well that's about the highest echelon of shit dying I can think of. There's no guarantee that the world, the people in it and the heroes that protect them are all going to live through this event.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Blood Lord » Sun Jun 09, 2013 6:07 pm

Havoc751 wrote:Wait, what do you mean by that?

The Dark Star Council is going out too.

Grids and BR were playing with that a few years ago. Might have just been done in spite of Kainsword.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Havoc » Sun Jun 09, 2013 10:02 pm

I don't know what Kainsword is. But I assume the Dark Star has to "go out" sometime, either marking the end of the story as a whole, or starting up a new saga, with someone else as the lead antagonist(s). My question is, what will happen to Dr.X and Bell in the end?

Actually Blood Lord, when you said "its not just Sam that will be dying", the first place my mind went was one of the good guys. More specifically, Jenny. However anyone's head, rather it be good or evil, could be on the chopping block, by the time this whole time bomb thing is over. That is, if they aren't too important to the plot.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby BeeAre » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:37 am

Kainsword is autistic or something, and likes Japanese monsters. Bleedman does too, but not to the extent Kainsword does, and when he was making the original PpGD back in 2004, he used Kainsword's designs because they were cool to him then.

Samantha will have a backstory exploration, even if it is pushed into another backstory, but it will make it just as significant, given the presence, the LITERAL presence of the Reaper. It'll jump around a bit in time.

Anybody who wants to research Medabots for me and find out what Samantha's parents are like in relation to her would be very helpful.

Anyway.

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