New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby CrimsonCreed » Tue May 21, 2013 12:44 am

Tenshi Nova wrote:GT feels to me something more like a mystery, constant questions and answers. Some take longer to answer, some just left there for the readers to interpret and discuss.

I still think that Aku and Him became friends through the destruction of Townsville.

Ya know i just thought of something... what if Aku was the traitor in disguise as one of the heros like Dexter...
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Blood Lord » Tue May 21, 2013 1:01 am

K13-ZAR wrote:okay I didn't mean to make you mad

Birdofterror wrote:
Randori wrote:He's not mad, he was just wondering why you would talk about the longevity of Bleedman's comics. And, not only that, responding to his question to something very poorly. Next time dude think before you speak.
While I'm inclined to agree with your assessment of the situation, it's not our place to say whether or not BR is actually mad.

I'd be a little cross if someone said the comic I'M working on is the one struggling. Go so far as to be even a little offended maybe.

Generally speaking, he isn't mad, but I would say... interested. Every time I see people complain about PpGD, BR tries his best to sit down, understand what they are saying, and explain to them what he is doing or what is going on. It's just like getting criticized over your work, you want to see what they are talking about and if it holds any merit for improvement.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Tenshi Nova » Tue May 21, 2013 3:16 am

Havoc751 wrote:
Tenshi Nova wrote:GT feels to me something more like a mystery, constant questions and answers. Some take longer to answer, some just left there for the readers to interpret and discuss.

I still think that Aku and Him became friends through the destruction of Townsville Megaville.

I don't see why PPGD wouldn't be a "mystery". I think they're equally enticing. But I feel PPGD plot (although slower as of late) might be more direct in answering some of the questions we're all asking, I feel like we're headed straight torwards the answers. Meanwhile, GT has taken a detour in it's plot, away from answering the question that need explaining.

I feel that the questions in GT are a bit more complex than the questions one would have in PPGD, my opinions ofc.
Also, I did mean Townsville, I was referring to something I posted before, about the ruined dog city at the beginning of Samurai Jack having minor references to Townsville. I think making a small reference to that is a possibility.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Ataw » Tue May 21, 2013 5:38 am

Wow...that is one of the very few episodes I watched of Samurai Jack and I still missed something like that?!
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby BeeAre » Tue May 21, 2013 6:13 pm

CrimsonCreed wrote:
BeeAre wrote:
PpGD isn't struggling to survive. GT merely has Bleedman's interest.

Well I can see why considering the advancing storyline in this chapter. Plus on top of that I'm guessing that the story around who Chi is, is somewhere along the main focus of the story. Although I get the feeling Aku has a personal agenda and is only working with Him to a certain extent, after all he is a master at deception.


What. The storyline is advancing in every comic. GT's "advancement" has been really poor in the past. Extremely so. Any advancement comes with a page covered in text. There have literally been pages with more text than art. That's not good in a comic. I recently talked to the new GT editor and explained to him why a comic should remain predominantly visual media. He appeared to agree with this idea, last time we talked.

What pages advanced GT's plot recently, and how does it compare to PpGD?

Tenshi Nova wrote:GT feels to me something more like a mystery, constant questions and answers. Some take longer to answer, some just left there for the readers to interpret and discuss.


No? PpGD has been around longer and people have simply asked more questions about it and thus have come to the conclusions they want? GT lacks the substance to retcon, thus introducing new information is easy but conflates the issues with the story; PpGD won't retcon, thus introducing new information is hard so as to make sure that it won't conflate the issues with the story (the primary issue, with both comics from what I see, being their roots as crossover comics).

Havoc751 wrote:I don't see why PPGD wouldn't be a "mystery". I think they're equally enticing. But I feel PPGD plot (although slower as of late) might be more direct in answering some of the questions we're all asking, I feel like we're headed straight torwards the answers. Meanwhile, GT has taken a detour in it's plot, away from answering the question that need explaining.


If you ask a question that is intended to be subtle, answer it subtly. If you ask a question that is intended to be direct, answer it directly.

Both comics have both sorts of questions, but I think that GT isn't consistent with its answers. That's not complicated or mysterious: that's poor planning.

Tenshi Nova wrote:I feel that the questions in GT are a bit more complex than the questions one would have in PPGD, my opinions ofc.


When we remove the burden of interpretation, we can't have an opinion on complexity. It is or is not more complex.

What's complex about GT, and what about PpGD is somehow less complex? I need a direct comparison here if I am going to understand what your thoughts are on this.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Tenshi Nova » Tue May 21, 2013 11:57 pm

BeeAre wrote:
Tenshi Nova wrote:GT feels to me something more like a mystery, constant questions and answers. Some take longer to answer, some just left there for the readers to interpret and discuss.


No? PpGD has been around longer and people have simply asked more questions about it and thus have come to the conclusions they want? GT lacks the substance to retcon, thus introducing new information is easy but conflates the issues with the story; PpGD won't retcon, thus introducing new information is hard so as to make sure that it won't conflate the issues with the story (the primary issue, with both comics from what I see, being their roots as crossover comics).

Tenshi Nova wrote:I feel that the questions in GT are a bit more complex than the questions one would have in PPGD, my opinions ofc.


When we remove the burden of interpretation, we can't have an opinion on complexity. It is or is not more complex.

What's complex about GT, and what about PpGD is somehow less complex? I need a direct comparison here if I am going to understand what your thoughts are on this.

Reason why I said it was my opinion is because I don't know as much as others, I never read older forums or know of any discussions that were already made(I'm also a bit too lazy to look for them and read them >.>). The reason why I believe GT is more complex is because some information in GT is just more surprising and the explanation behind them are just as surprising. For me, seeing how Mandy and Grim got together was more surprising than finding    out how DeeDee died.    The questions and theories of Aku and Him being friends are more complex than say Dexter being friends with Otto. So saying that the questions are more complex was inaccurate, I should say I believe that the answers are more complex. Also, I feel like a little kid talking to you. xD
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby MissTikilicious » Wed May 22, 2013 12:32 am

Tenshi Nova wrote:
BeeAre wrote:
Tenshi Nova wrote:GT feels to me something more like a mystery, constant questions and answers. Some take longer to answer, some just left there for the readers to interpret and discuss.


No? PpGD has been around longer and people have simply asked more questions about it and thus have come to the conclusions they want? GT lacks the substance to retcon, thus introducing new information is easy but conflates the issues with the story; PpGD won't retcon, thus introducing new information is hard so as to make sure that it won't conflate the issues with the story (the primary issue, with both comics from what I see, being their roots as crossover comics).

Tenshi Nova wrote:I feel that the questions in GT are a bit more complex than the questions one would have in PPGD, my opinions ofc.


When we remove the burden of interpretation, we can't have an opinion on complexity. It is or is not more complex.

What's complex about GT, and what about PpGD is somehow less complex? I need a direct comparison here if I am going to understand what your thoughts are on this.

Reason why I said it was my opinion is because I don't know as much as others, I never read older forums or know of any discussions that were already made(I'm also a bit too lazy to look for them and read them >.>). The reason why I believe GT is more complex is because some information in GT is just more surprising and the explanation behind them are just as surprising. For me, seeing how Mandy and Grim got together was more surprising than finding    out how DeeDee died.    The questions and theories of Aku and Him being friends are more complex than say Dexter being friends with Otto. So saying that the questions are more complex was inaccurate, I should say I believe that the answers are more complex. Also, I feel like a little kid talking to you. xD


Practically almost EVERYBODY feels like that when talking with BR. Sweet Hell, I feel like a single cell organism just by reading his posts!
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Tenshi Nova » Wed May 22, 2013 12:37 am

MissTikilicious wrote:Practically almost EVERYBODY feels like that when talking with BR. Sweet Hell, I feel like a single cell organism just by reading his posts!

Rofl, This just made my day. xD
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby K13-ZAR » Wed May 22, 2013 12:46 am

the reason I said what I said is because to me personally where Grim Tales feels like a actual story, PpGD feels like it is just one fight after another with little story in between them anymore
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Exodis » Wed May 22, 2013 12:50 am

Tenshi Nova wrote:Also, I did mean Townsville, I was referring to something I posted before, about the ruined dog city at the beginning of Samurai Jack having minor references to Townsville. I think making a small reference to that is a possibility.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Havoc » Wed May 22, 2013 12:52 am

BeeAre wrote:If you ask a question that is intended to be subtle, answer it subtly. If you ask a question that is intended to be direct, answer it directly.

Both comics have both sorts of questions, but I think that GT isn't consistent with its answers. That's not complicated or mysterious: that's poor planning.

Fair enough. GT is kinda all over the place, compared to PPGD. I guess it's a case of "finish one candy bar, before you open up another."

There's so much I want to know about Megaville and the heroes.
But I feel like Bleed's side stepping this issue.

When a story brings up something that greatly peeks my interest,
and doesn't build on it or make further mention of it, it pisses me off.

But I guess I shouldn't bitch about it too much.
Maybe someday well get those answers. -_-

But anyways, there's something regarding Aku and Him, that I came up with in the Prediction Thread. Thought I'd post it her as well.

What if Him is deceiving Aku? He could be lying to Aku about anything like:

-he was the one who killed Blossom.

-the fact he had sex with Blossom, and Mimi is her daughter.

-Or even the fact that Blossom is dead in the first place.

The way I see it; It's possible Aku loved Blossom, and he's greatly saddened by her death, and looking for revenge. Yet Him isn't telling Aku about the first two things I listed. And when the time comes, Him could place the blame on someone else. He could be manipulating Aku for his own personal game. I definitely wouldn't put it past him.

Tenshi Nova wrote:Also, I did mean Townsville, I was referring to something I posted before, about the ruined dog city at the beginning of Samurai Jack having minor references to Townsville. I think making a small reference to that is a possibility.

My bad.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby MissTikilicious » Wed May 22, 2013 1:18 am

Havoc751 wrote:But anyways, there's something regarding Aku and Him, that I came up with in the Prediction Thread. Thought I'd post it her as well.

What if Him is deceiving Aku? He could be lying to Aku about anything like:

-he was the one who killed Blossom.

-the fact he had sex with Blossom, and Mimi is her daughter.

-Or even the fact that Blossom is dead in the first place.

The way I see it; It's possible Aku loved Blossom, and he's greatly saddened by her death, and looking for revenge. Yet Him isn't telling Aku about the first two things I listed. And when the time comes, Him could place the blame on someone else. He could be manipulating Aku for his own personal game. I definitely wouldn't put it past him.

Why does it not disturb or surprise me that I can completely see Him doing ANY of these actions?
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Tenshi Nova » Wed May 22, 2013 2:31 am

MissTikilicious wrote:
Havoc751 wrote:But anyways, there's something regarding Aku and Him, that I came up with in the Prediction Thread. Thought I'd post it her as well.

What if Him is deceiving Aku? He could be lying to Aku about anything like:

-he was the one who killed Blossom.

-the fact he had sex with Blossom, and Mimi is her daughter.

-Or even the fact that Blossom is dead in the first place.

The way I see it; It's possible Aku loved Blossom, and he's greatly saddened by her death, and looking for revenge. Yet Him isn't telling Aku about the first two things I listed. And when the time comes, Him could place the blame on someone else. He could be manipulating Aku for his own personal game. I definitely wouldn't put it past him.

Why does it not disturb or surprise me that I can completely see Him doing ANY of these actions?

He's the devil. He's killed Jeff, or at least turned him into a spirit. He sent Mimi on a mission destined to fail. He tortured Mimi to the point where she's become a masochist. He forced Mimi to kill her own friends and family. He tried to force Minnie's lust for Junior out and then tried to make her kill him. He killed countless heroes from Megaville in order to kidnap Mimi, by prying her away from Blossom. He also framed the pictures of a couple of these acts. I think I might've missed some, but Him lying to Aku wouldn't be the worse thing on his list of accomplishments.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby silvercover » Wed May 22, 2013 7:15 am

yep. the only thing that keeps it from being almost sure is that this is aku we're talking about. he's not some random head who has power, this guy's one of the rulers and very powerful as well as knowledgeable. its a bit doubtful that aku would remain in the dark.
but imo, yes I do think him's still tricking aku. just that some facts make it unlikely for now.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Tenshi Nova » Wed May 22, 2013 2:04 pm

I'm not sure if Him is willing to lie to Aku, he'd run the risk of making an enemy out of Aku. The only way I can see Him being willing to lie to Aku, is if Aku was going to become his enemy without said lie. I still think the idea of them being friends is more plausible.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby BeeAre » Wed May 22, 2013 6:38 pm

Tenshi Nova wrote:Reason why I said it was my opinion is because I don't know as much as others, I never read older forums or know of any discussions that were already made(I'm also a bit too lazy to look for them and read them >.>). The reason why I believe GT is more complex is because some information in GT is just more surprising and the explanation behind them are just as surprising. For me, seeing how Mandy and Grim got together was more surprising than finding    out how DeeDee died   .


-_- Laziness is not a good thing to base your opinion on, I think, first of all. From this idea, I think we can derive that you really haven't spent much time even in recent discussions with PpGD.

Why I say this is possible: you seem to be focused on the nature of character interactions. And only a few of them, at that.

The questions and theories of Aku and Him being friends are more complex than say Dexter being friends with Otto. So saying that the questions are more complex was inaccurate, I should say I believe that the answers are more complex. Also, I feel like a little kid talking to you. xD


Again: you are focusing on how only a few characters are interacting.

Why are those characters more interesting to you?

I'm older than most of the people on this forum, to be sure. Hana is older than me. Dave. Bleedman. Uh. Anyone else want to claim their oldie card, they can.

K13-ZAR wrote:the reason I said what I said is because to me personally where Grim Tales feels like a actual story, PpGD feels like it is just one fight after another with little story in between them anymore


How does GT feel like a story?

I would like you to actually count the number of fights in PpGD for me, so I can understand why you see them as a string of fights.

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Havoc751 wrote:Fair enough. GT is kinda all over the place, compared to PPGD. I guess it's a case of "finish one candy bar, before you open up another."


Yeah. Bleedman - and a lot of people here, apparently - would rather the candy bars just keep getting slammed in so there is a gigantic ball of candy wrappers and tummy aches.

But these stories have to end someday, I hope you all realize this. No matter how fun you think something is at the time, the story has to complete itself, and it becomes irritating and unsatisfying if you do what Bleedman is wont to do, which is keep adding and adding and adding without recognizing what is useful or not. This has been pretty consistent with all his comics. GT, SB, and PpGD before I started cleaning house. There have been cases of literally all of his writers telling him not to do something, and him doing it anyway. Frustrating.

There's so much I want to know about Megaville and the heroes.
But I feel like Bleed's side stepping this issue.


GT or PpGD?

When a story brings up something that greatly peeks my interest,
and doesn't build on it or make further mention of it, it pisses me off.


GT does this constantly, but sheds its information quickly enough that no one notices, I guess. People can't get angry if you abandon interesting ideas as quickly as you introduce them.

But I guess I shouldn't bitch about it too much.
Maybe someday well get those answers. -_-


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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Tenshi Nova » Wed May 22, 2013 9:04 pm

BeeAre wrote:
Tenshi Nova wrote:Reason why I said it was my opinion is because I don't know as much as others, I never read older forums or know of any discussions that were already made(I'm also a bit too lazy to look for them and read them >.>). The reason why I believe GT is more complex is because some information in GT is just more surprising and the explanation behind them are just as surprising. For me, seeing how Mandy and Grim got together was more surprising than finding    out how DeeDee died   .


-_- Laziness is not a good thing to base your opinion on, I think, first of all. From this idea, I think we can derive that you really haven't spent much time even in recent discussions with PpGD.

Why I say this is possible: you seem to be focused on the nature of character interactions. And only a few of them, at that.

The questions and theories of Aku and Him being friends are more complex than say Dexter being friends with Otto. So saying that the questions are more complex was inaccurate, I should say I believe that the answers are more complex. Also, I feel like a little kid talking to you. xD


Again: you are focusing on how only a few characters are interacting.

Why are those characters more interesting to you?

I know I'm not as knowledgeable as others, instead of going back to the other forums, I thought I'd just pick up information this way. Sorry If it annoys anyone, I try not to be annoying, I'm not sure when I'm being annoying, but I know it must happen often.
The reason why I pointed out character interactions is because you asked for some examples, and these were simpler ones. I personally prefer PPGD over GT, I find the interaction between the characters more enjoyable. My vocabulary isn't that colorful, working on it, enjoyable is the only word I can think of atm. T.T I also realize that I focus more on character interaction than other story elements, but I do note some other things. I find Megaville in GT more complex than the Megaville in PPGD, questions such as how the more pro-heroes(like Super-Monkey :D) didn't help. To me, it seemed the attack on Megaville in GT had more time for response than in PPGD, and if they did respond what happened. I have a lot of questions to ask, but I'd rather wait for a more appropriate time to bring it up.
I also have been in the PPGD forums, I just think I don't have anything worth inputting on those forums, because I'm sure most of what I have to say not only has been said before, but when I do think of something, someone else had already thought of it and posted before myself. I just find the discussions there aren't as wide and complicated as the ones here.
Again I apologize for being lazy and also being uninformed because of it, I meant no disrespect to anyone that I've annoyed. Also, I feel that I've irritated you, so if I have sorry about that.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Havoc » Thu May 23, 2013 1:35 am

BeeAre wrote:
I wrote:There's so much I want to know about Megaville and the heroes.
But I feel like Bleed's side stepping this issue.

GT or PpGD?

Grim Tales. Not only do I feel like he's sidestepping important issues, but I also think he might be missing out on a huge creative opportunity. There's so much potential with the future city of Megaville and all of the heroes, but I feel like he might be pissing it away. But I guess that's yet to be seen.

BeeAre wrote:But these stories have to end someday, I hope you all realize this. No matter how fun you think something is at the time, the story has to complete itself,

Yeah, I guess you're right. It can't go on forever, nor can it end with an annoying-ass cliff hanger. But I just hope they don't end too soon. Although, it makes me wonder what the future could hold. Would Bleedman start another story once these stories end?

BeeAre wrote:it becomes irritating and unsatisfying if you do what Bleedman is wont to do, which is keep adding and adding and adding without recognizing what is useful or not.

I think I know what you're saying. I can't shake the feeling that this whole "Chi thing" was shoehorned in to a story, that wasn't originally meant to have it.

BeeAre wrote:People can't get angry if you abandon interesting ideas as quickly as you introduce them.

If an idea is interesting enough and a significant part of the story, you can't just abandon it without causing at least some backlash.

BeeAre wrote:There have been cases of literally all of his writers telling him not to do something, and him doing it anyway. Frustrating.

I think I saw something about that, back when I was skulking the forums as a guest. If I recall correctly, you and Grids protested against him starting Grim Tales:FO, but he did anyways. If I'm correct, the same goes with Chi, you guys told him not to include her in the story, but here we are now.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby silvercover » Thu May 23, 2013 8:33 am

Havoc751 wrote:I think I know what you're saying. I can't shake the feeling that this whole "Chi thing" was shoehorned in to a story, that wasn't originally meant to have it.

well of course. ever heard of afterbirth, the intended sequel of GT?

but unlike you guys though, I welcome all of these additions. it will add more flavor for the future of GT, assuming we get to some point close to AB. the recent arcs could shift the intended story line, if its not doing it already.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby K13-ZAR » Thu May 23, 2013 11:07 pm

I wish to apologies to BeeAre. I was upset about something stupid and it caused me to say things I did not mean. I actually quite enjoy PpGD and I don't actually think of it as nothing more then a bunch of fights stringed together. I am very sorry.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Havoc » Thu May 23, 2013 11:10 pm

silvercover wrote:well of course. ever heard of afterbirth, the intended sequel of GT?

Yeah, I guess that makes sense. With Afterbirth in the toilet, they probably needed a new direction to take the story in, and this Aku/Chi story was the winning number. Also I feel like Future Orientations was cut short.

silvercover wrote:but unlike you guys though, I welcome all of these additions. it will add more flavor for the future of GT, assuming we get to some point close to AB. the recent arcs could shift the intended story line, if its not doing it already.

I remember BeeAre said something about talking with Dave about trying to make Afterbirth canon again.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Teran » Thu May 23, 2013 11:19 pm

I hope that's not the case. GTAB was terrible.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Blood Lord » Thu May 23, 2013 11:25 pm

What Teran said. Just dump it in the toilet and move on to something else.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Tenshi Nova » Fri May 24, 2013 12:10 am

I like the twin half ghost idea.
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Re: New Grim Tales - 5/19/13 - Words from big daddy... wait...wu

Postby Sigment » Fri May 24, 2013 1:11 am

I'm pretty sure the artwork (like of the adult versions of Junior and Mimi) got people more interested in GTAB than anything else.
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