Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Primary discussion forum. Also, feel free this use as a hangout for fans of the funny non-story based comics.

Moderator: Mod Squad

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Mir@k » Thu May 02, 2013 9:13 pm

So Robotnik went from having squabbles with neon colored woodland creatures to fighting at battle royales in one piece huh
24 Karat
Snafu Gold Card Member!

User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 1305
Joined: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:00 pm
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Lord Frieza » Thu May 02, 2013 10:46 pm

Senel wrote:I really can't imagine Cobra being that strong. Unlike the others he was imprisoned for several years, and I don't imagine them letting people train their magic in a mage prison.


That's not exactly true. There was an anime-only arc where Cobra and several others of the Oracion Seis created a new Oracion Seis group post-timeskip and did battle with Fairy Tail. So this suggests that he wasn't in prison for very long. At least not 7 years worth.

And yes, I know that anime-only stuff isn't considered canon, but remember that Kinana was an anime-only character and was put in the manga later on (even though they were only frequent cameos). So it's not a complete stretch that more anime-only stuff is going to become canon.

That's the only explanation that I can think of. We'll see in later chapters if my theory is correct.
Planet Pawner
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 238
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2010 10:24 am
Location: Home For Infinite Losers
Gender: Female

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Vegedus » Fri May 03, 2013 1:03 pm

Rival wrote:
Vegedus wrote:I don't know if you guys have noticed this, but 7 is a pretty common and magic number in like, all of human history and mythology too. It's not "a halo thing".

Yeah in the western world especially 7, 4, 3 and 10 are the go to "meaningful" numbers.

I didn't write anything since I didn't want to interrupt the FT (which I don't follow) related discussion, but yeah Vegedus channelled my thoughts anyway. Must be some kind of magic.

Notice how in your last post to me you wrote "1-6"? So I was channelled to post about 7. Magic number 7.
Image
Will make apocalypse themed fiction for food
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 10219
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:46 pm
Location: Denmark, at world's end
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Rival » Fri May 03, 2013 1:23 pm

Vegedus wrote:Notice how in your last post to me you wrote "1-6"? So I was channelled to post about 7. Magic number 7.

Rival wrote:
Vegedus wrote:Well, I only watched 2.22 once, and remember fuck all, so need to watch that again first. Maybe do the first one again while I'm at it.

First one's really episodes 1-6 of the original series, only with Shinji seeing Lilith, Rei being less walking blow-up doll and far better animation.
Image
Stanisław Lem wrote:I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 12784
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:54 pm
Location: Poland
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Vegedus » Fri May 03, 2013 3:17 pm

It only took me like 15 minutes to find a way to tie that together.

Also, having re-watched 2.22:

WiNg0o wrote:Fucking 2.22 was so fucking great.

Yes. I can't believe how much I've missed Eva's fucked up violence, fucked up relationships, fucked up symbolism and fucked up music, even. It's odd the movie didn't leave more of an impression the first time I saw it.
Image
Will make apocalypse themed fiction for food
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 10219
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:46 pm
Location: Denmark, at world's end
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby WiNg0o » Fri May 03, 2013 10:54 pm

Man I live for Evas going berserk.
I Killed the Boss
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 2821
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Location: Layton, Utah
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby The Mad Doctor » Sat May 04, 2013 7:51 am


this is hilarious.
Image

I love things for the exact same reason you hate them for.
PRAISE THE SUN BITCH
User avatar
online
 
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:31 pm
Location: An evil lair
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Rival » Sat May 04, 2013 8:07 am

Vegedus wrote:Yes. I can't believe how much I've missed Eva's fucked up violence, fucked up relationships, fucked up symbolism and fucked up music, even.

Image
Stanisław Lem wrote:I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 12784
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:54 pm
Location: Poland
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Vegedus » Sat May 04, 2013 11:54 am

Okay, so, that was 3.33. Can't say I was entirely happy with it either, but it grew on me as it went on.

   I really found the (long) time skip to be a mistake. It puts a barrier between re-connecting with the world and the characters, lots of time spent establishing "bad shit happened" and sci-fi tech for the sake of sci-fi tech. The last one I'd normally be all over, and it is technically a mecha series, but it's always mixed with a everyday atmosphere, shinji taking an old looking train every time he has to do some inside voices. I don't really think the technology is an important part of the series, it's the fucked up it's true form and purpose is. Every logo being made of triangles and Shinji's dad having visors just reeked of "it's the future, wooooo! Look at all this stuff that have changed unneccesarily!". I had the thought that really, it had changed the tone and feel of evangelion too much, but I think Kaworu called me out on that, so now I dunno... And Asuka is 13 years older, but still the same age? So, how is she now, how much have she changed? The movie doesn't give her enough screen time to answer that question, defaulting to "weary and serious" for both her and Misato.

Basically it seems nothing really happened during the first half of the movie, no characterisation, no plot. After that, it picked up, and seeing an eva become godlike is still fun, though the ending basically felt similar to the second. Another impact triggered, this time avoided, but the world is still screwed, so we're basically back to were the movie started.   
Image
Will make apocalypse themed fiction for food
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 10219
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:46 pm
Location: Denmark, at world's end
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Rival » Sat May 04, 2013 2:12 pm

   There's some very reasonable speculation that Anno pulled the timeskip so that he wouldn't have to share mechandise profits with Gainax, with which he's had a slow, but steady falling out. Thanks to the timeskip the vast majority of 3.33 related merchandise money, such as from Asuka's sugoi hat, goes solely to Khara (Anno's own studio).

I agree that storyline wise there was no reason for the timeskip. What bothered me the most was Wille not bothering to explain anything to Shinji. A simple explanation like "Your dad is trying to turn whole world into goo! We have some signs of activity from 01 so you may or may not have saved your girlfriend, but a braindead clone of your girlfriend works for Gendo, don't trust her." from anyone on the ship would've effectively averted everything bad that happened later on.

It's also pretty hypocritical of Misato to be so cold towards Shinji and put a freaking choker on him, when she herself pushed him on in 2.22 to perform the action that lead to the Third Impact.

Once Kaworu appeared in-front of Shinji the film got good, and had some cinematically very well executed scenes like the star watching dialogue and the Shogi game (fun fact Fuyutsuki tells Shinji he'll lose in 31 moves, Kaworu dies 31 minutes later). BUT it's the better part of the movie that has the plot holes:

1) Why wasn't Shinji opposed to Kaworu putting the choker on himself? He had to know Wille would very likely kill him.

2) Why were there two spears? It has been a part of NGE lore ever since the TV series, that only Longinus is functional and the other spear got destroyed during First Impact before humanity even existed .

3) What the fuck were those things that "failed to become Infinity" as Kaworu put it? They looked liked Evangelions, but their numbers suggest they had to be humans. Was it Lilith's progeny before humanity? Movie doesn't explain.

4) Why did Shinji ignore Kaworu asking him to stop, for 5 straight minutes, when he decided to take out the spears only because of him in the first place?

The real life reason for Asuka not aging in 3.33, is not wanting to antagonize the Otaku fanbase, which buys all the merchandise, 28 year old Asuka would likely not sit well with them. The fan-wank explanations for the "curse of EVA" are either 1. Consequence of being exposed to LCL for years or 2. Consequence of Asuke being posessed by Bardiel in 2.22.   

Asuka's sugoi hat, linked due to spoilers: http://i.imgur.com/FdLNkf7.png
Stanisław Lem wrote:I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 12784
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:54 pm
Location: Poland
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Vegedus » Sat May 04, 2013 2:37 pm

   Wille explanation: Yup. It seemed like they reaaaaally didn't want to explain what the fuck is going on in the setting any faster than they had to, to shinji AND the audience. It seems odd that while they pretty much state outright at the end of 2.22 that third impact is starting, it's revealed here, 50 minutes in, almost as a twist, that *gasp* shinji fucked up the world! It's the basis for his actions for most of the rest of the movie, so it's important, but it's still very late.

1) Well, Kaworu himself pretty much states that he WANTS to take that risk, and shinji isn't someone to overrule other people's decisions. And it has little bearing since he kills himself... As far as I could tell, I'm not a hundred percent sure.

3) Yeah, and it's not the only thing, lots of "what the fuck is that, huh, how did all that get there, what does that mean", but it's evangelion, so even though it annoys me, I can't really complain. Mysteries and everyone talking with biblical words we have no context for is pretty much par for the course.

4) Yup. Because "plot" I guess. A more favourable reading is that Shinji is so desperate to become a saviour that he'll do anything, even if it'll definitely backfire. It does seem like Kaworu's reassurance that they can fix the world is the only thing keeping him from breaking. But it has the same stink about it as your first issue: They strain the believability of the characters to put shinji in a position where he can fuck up and mess up the world again. Evangelion has always been about making life hell for that guy, but usually it's because of things outside his control, or things he couldn't know about.

Asuka: Obviously, but it just goes to show how stupid the time skip is, when you have to handwave all the implications of it you don't like. Actually age the characters, or do something with the setting besides put visors on everybody? Nah, we'll just draw sharper chins on the adults and come up with some bullshit for the kids.   
Image
Will make apocalypse themed fiction for food
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 10219
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:46 pm
Location: Denmark, at world's end
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Rival » Sun May 05, 2013 4:41 am

   1) Yeah Kaworu sacrificed himself so the choker ultimately didn't matter much, it was only there to have Kaworu explode and make his death scene more dramatic. But I still thought putting like 10 seconds of dialogue with Shinji at least trying to talk him out of it would've benefited Shinji's characterization. Shinji is frequently a tool, but never a douche.

3) It may be par for the course. But Anno said that Rebuild would be "be more accessible to non-fans than the original TV series and films were" and so far the first 2 movies were pretty accessible, 3.33 requires knowledge from the TV series to even somewhat understand what's happening and relying only on the knowledge from Rebuild it's completely incomprehensible.

4) Yeah it seems they built Shinji up so much in 2.22 and needed him broken for the fourth movie, so they focused entirely on that for 3.33. Sadly they took a lot of shortcuts to accomplish that.

I'm pretty convinced the timeskip means the fourth movie won't be the end of the franchise in animated form. And that's a shame, cause I really hoped Rebuild would be self-contained and would give EVA some finality. With a "new" setting established I doubt they'll be able to resist doing another tv series eventually,   
Stanisław Lem wrote:I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 12784
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:54 pm
Location: Poland
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Vegedus » Sun May 05, 2013 1:34 pm

Ugh, yeah, I dislike that idea a lot. I can definitely see what you mean, them spring boarding a new series of this "new" setting. I like seeing different interpretations of the series (speaking off, apparently the manga is ending soon?), but the idea of "continuing" it messes with the concept.
Image
Will make apocalypse themed fiction for food
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 10219
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:46 pm
Location: Denmark, at world's end
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Rival » Sun May 05, 2013 4:11 pm

Vegedus wrote:speaking off, apparently the manga is ending soon?

There's only about 3-4 chapters left to go, yes. Out of the 94 released chapters only chapters up till 90 are scanlated in English though, so I'm a bit out of the loop.
Stanisław Lem wrote:I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 12784
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:54 pm
Location: Poland
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Vegedus » Sun May 05, 2013 4:34 pm

I've bought all the tankobon up to now, so I'll probably wait till they come out. It helped that they were localized and thus, relatively cheap.
Image
Will make apocalypse themed fiction for food
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 10219
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:46 pm
Location: Denmark, at world's end
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby WiNg0o » Sun May 05, 2013 10:19 pm

   Still the thing that bugs me and what made Kaworu so much of an impact on Shinji is that he was the only one that seemed to just want to make Shinji happy and he is forced to kill him himself...The dummy system almost killed his friend the first time the second time was all him and that should've been what breaks him, not his "hope" causing 4th impact.   
I Killed the Boss
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 2821
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Location: Layton, Utah
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Rival » Mon May 06, 2013 8:53 am

WiNg0o wrote:   Still the thing that bugs me and what made Kaworu so much of an impact on Shinji is that he was the only one that seemed to just want to make Shinji happy and he is forced to kill him himself...The dummy system almost killed his friend the first time the second time was all him and that should've been what breaks him, not his "hope" causing 4th impact.   

   I think Kaworu's death hit Shinji pretty strongly in Rebuild too. He still talked after he triggered another Impact, it's after Kaworu's death that he stopped reacting to anything and just curled up.

I agree Kaworu's death was a far stronger scene in the TV series, but it's one of the best scenes in the original TV series so it'd be very hard to top. Besides it happened at a time when absolutely everything went to hell for Shinji, Asuka comatose, Rei being revealed to be a bunch of clones, Ritsuko implying she lost Gendo to Rei (which Shinji probably did misunderstand not having known the context), Misato wanting to have pity sex with him. 3.33 tried a similar build-up, but it just didn't feel as natural and engrossing.

But even in 3.33 I think Shinji was hit more by Kaworu's death than the Impact triggering.   
Vegedus wrote:I've bought all the tankobon up to now, so I'll probably wait till they come out. It helped that they were localized and thus, relatively cheap.

Rather than only lazily check on mangaupdates, which is what I did before, I dug through easymodo archives and it turns out chapters 91-94 were scanlated in English by /a/, using cleaning done by Spanish language scanlations.

So I'll share the links in case you or WiNg0o want to read them (it's almost exactly like the events in EoE, but there are some surprising changes). If you want to wait for the official release that's fine too, of course.

> NGE Manga Stage 91
http://www.mediafire.com/?2q3r5jsyxd0s75w

> NGE Manga Stage 92
http://www.mediafire.com/?5bn1aeamtr9soaq

> NGE Manga Stage 93
http://www.mediafire.com/?tsd6461vnb6nmt2

> NGE Manga Stage 94
http://www.mediafire.com/?yhqgwdvslcyyu2n
Stanisław Lem wrote:I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 12784
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:54 pm
Location: Poland
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Vegedus » Mon May 06, 2013 5:37 pm

I honestly don't remember Kaworu's role in the original series, only vaguely for the manga, except the delicious sexual tension.
Image
Will make apocalypse themed fiction for food
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 10219
Joined: Sun Jul 24, 2005 4:46 pm
Location: Denmark, at world's end
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby WiNg0o » Mon May 06, 2013 8:58 pm

Kaworu was the final angel, he looks human and becomes Shinji's only real friend that inevitably betrays him and basically walks down to Lilith. He stops himself and lets Shinji kill him because he really does like him which really breaks Shinji finally.
I Killed the Boss
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 2821
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Location: Layton, Utah
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Rival » Tue May 07, 2013 9:03 am

Vegedus wrote:I honestly don't remember Kaworu's role in the original series, only vaguely for the manga, except the delicious sexual tension.

He only appears in episode 24 (and then as either a ghost or hallucination in EoE). Shinji needs 64 seconds in real-time to make the decision to kill Kaworu after Kaworu asks him to do it. it was done due to budget reasons and cost-cutting, but it was executed very well and makes Shinji's decision look that much harder.

Mostly what WiNg0o says, except I'd add one thing.
WiNg0o wrote:Kaworu was the final angel, he looks human and becomes Shinji's only real friend that inevitably betrays him and basically walks down to Lilith. He stops himself and lets Shinji kill him because he really does like him which really breaks Shinji finally.

He doesn't so much "stop himself" as much as he realizes he's been duped and what lies at Dogma is Lilith not Adam. By getting in contact with Lilith he'd kill all humans, but not reach the goal of an Angel, merging with Adam, since he has no clue where Adam is and doesn't want to kill humanity for the sake of killing humanity, he prefers to be killed so that Shinji can live.

That's why Seele planted him as the Fifth Child even though they knew he's an Angel, because they knew Kaworu would not cause an Angel prefered version of an Impact if what he found was not Adam. I think it's in Kaworu's nature to merge with Adam, even if he has free will, so had Kaworu found Adam I don't think even his friendship with Shinji would've stopped him. That's why Kaworu says "I'm destined to live even though it would bring destruction to humanity" and "Death is the only absolute freedom", because as long as he lives he is led by the destiny/instict/programming of an Angel. Here's a list of Third Impact goals:
Image

Keep in mind this is all TV series canon, in Rebuild we have no idea what the goals are, what Gendo gets from Kaji in 2.22 looks nothing like an Adam's fetus.
Stanisław Lem wrote:I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 12784
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:54 pm
Location: Poland
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby WiNg0o » Wed May 08, 2013 6:45 pm

I like how Ichigo's mom has that old Orihime charm.
I Killed the Boss
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 2821
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2006 10:17 pm
Location: Layton, Utah
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Remni » Wed May 08, 2013 10:56 pm

I think she's beat out Orihime in that category, just showing herself off with no regard to the fact she was naked.

Also, very happy that they pretty much summarized everything regarding Ichigo in that one issue and skipped to his mom's death. Kubo doesnt do that very often.
Image
My Steam - Xbox GamerTag: TheSweedishChef
Shameless league stuff!
Fortunately Unfortunate
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 1071
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:38 am
Location: Help! I'm stuck in your pocket!
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby Rival » Thu May 09, 2013 7:46 am

Mostly pretty good chapters from the big 3 this week.

The one thing that bothered me about Naruto is that it was previously established that if a Jinchuriki with a Tailed Beast inside of him died, then the Tailed Beast dies, too. So if Rin had it inside of her, the Tailed Beast should have died with her, if she didn't, there was no point in killing her, and if Kirigakure managed to extract the Three-Tails before Rin died, then Kakashi did a horrible job killing her fast and painlessly.

On /a/ someone wrote that the Three-Tails must've died and then later got revived by Kirigakure, but that sounds like a make believe asspull to me.

The poor censoring of Masaki's nipples, reminded how Shounen Jump used to be cool about showing female breats. The shot of Bulma in chapter 100 is full and frontal, it's even specifically in chapter 100, so it's probably meant as fan-service:

Totally NSFW obviously: http://i.imgur.com/wgL1Jql.png

It's funny cause Dragon Ball was aimed at an even younger target audience than Bleach. i wonder if Bleach will uncensor that Masaki shot for the volumes.

In One Piece, before this chapter I thought Bellamy was the favorite to win Block B, but it seems Oda has plans for Bartolomeo.
Stanisław Lem wrote:I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 12784
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 3:54 pm
Location: Poland
Gender: Male

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby EagleMan » Thu May 09, 2013 2:59 pm

Eh, the tailed beast thing isn't the worst thing they could retcon. If the tailed beasts were such a big threat, why not just kill a host with them inside? Problem solved. Even if you want to keep your own Jinchuriki for the power, it still makes sense to go assassinate the other ones.
User avatar
offline
 
Posts: 13871
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:24 pm
Gender: None specified

Re: Shounen Manga Discussion(Naruto Bleach etc. spoilers inside)

Postby The Mad Doctor » Thu May 09, 2013 3:36 pm

After reading a few volumes of one piece from my local library (I don't go online and read most comics, walking is good for you), I started watching the anime online. I tried watching it on the funimation website but after watching an episode of the dub it wouldn't let me watch another one saying it wasn't available in my area. It didn't make sense to me. Then I watched other episodes on another website. I like how it doesn't change much of anything from the manga. I watch an episode or two every few days or so.
Image

I love things for the exact same reason you hate them for.
PRAISE THE SUN BITCH
User avatar
online
 
Posts: 2040
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2012 7:31 pm
Location: An evil lair
Gender: Male

PreviousNext

Return to Snafu General Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests