Who says idiots can't be heroes?

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Who says idiots can't be heroes?

Postby Light10s » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:21 pm

Oh good gravy. This opening post needs help. Let's see here, grammar and spelling issues that impede discussion! I will fix them.

They say that only the the strong, brave, and bold can be hero'sheroes, but not Iidiots. Why is that? Is it because they're brains are so slow they can't function under stressful situations? Is it because there tothey're too clumsy [and so] they end up falling to they'retheir deaths too early in the story? Or is it because they look like they're not hero metiralmaterial. oOften time's people write books about how some common idiots were able to become hero'sheroes. But that was obvious because it was pointed out on the front cover or on the description. bBut as you read, watch, or play we encounter idiots from the beginning and in the end. tThere is nothing they do that is heroic or remotely close to the word. So what were to happen if the Iidiot we all know were to take an unexpected turn of events and turns from the Iidiot we knew him in the Past into the hero we did not expected him to become in the Present (or Future).

(If you want an example i can give you one. Fair warning my examples are long I can't make them short because it's easier to understand when there longthey're long.)

Summary is a powerful technique you should practice in making your explanations shorter; the capitalization issues I mainly fixed for consistency. A bit confused as to your capitalization choices. You have to master the rules before you can break them.
Last edited by BeeAre on Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:40 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Reason: Discussion correction.
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby The Mad Doctor » Fri Apr 19, 2013 7:43 pm

There's actually quite a few heroes of that type. You have the Peter Parker that is a nerd (then got bitten by a genetically modified spider), and you got Hiccup from the How to Train your dragon movie. Those are two I can name right off the bat. You might be surprised, there really is plenty of others.
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Light10s » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:08 pm

Yea but those two are obvious because Hiccup's face is on the front cover or page and Parker in the the description. so it's obvious that they would become hero's. I'm talking about idiots we, me, anyone would least expect to become a hero. like for example billy from GAO Billy & Mandy.
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby The Mad Doctor » Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:37 pm

Your talking about all that character development being built up in one person then being wasted on the person who you would least expect? And you're asking why the minor characters can't suddenly turn into heroes?
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Light10s » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:13 pm

Yea i knew someone would catch on.
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Blood Lord » Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:29 pm

Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

hero's?

Heroes

Simple reason is that they are usually used as comic relief, and the best friend of the main character. There are times when they rise to the occasion and be a hero, but they aren't the main focus.
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Biostar » Sat Apr 20, 2013 1:02 am

I've seen several anime, so it isn't that rare to me. Loads of idiot heroes.
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby The Mad Doctor » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:43 am

The partnership of Frodo Baginns and Samwise is similar, Sam having his rare heroic moments despite already doing half the work.
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby CrimsonCreed » Sat Apr 20, 2013 9:03 am

Donald, Goofy, and Sora from Kingdom Hearts i think fits into the category, definitely Naruto (before Shippuden) for one. Ben 10, Lloyd from Ninjago etc,etc
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Blood Lord » Sat Apr 20, 2013 10:01 am

We need a clearer understanding of the word and classification of an "idiot". Like Mad pointed out with Samwise, but he isn't an idiot.

Are we speaking of those who are totally incapable of intelligent thought processes, or those unlikely to be a hero?
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Dibullba » Sat Apr 20, 2013 4:43 pm

NOBODY OUTSHINES BLACKSTAR!!!!
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby CrimsonCreed » Sat Apr 20, 2013 5:27 pm

Dibullba wrote:NOBODY OUTSHINES BLACKSTAR!!!!


hmm idk i think naruto does before he got older that is
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Light10s » Sun Apr 21, 2013 12:38 pm

I've watched and read DC Universe and Marvel i had not seen anyone who fit the description of Idiot. they were all perfect. They each had a quality that made them become hero's. When i started watching Cartoon Network, Disney, and Nick, i saw alot of people heroes and idiots, the heroes had a big part to play but not the idiots. So i thought to my self what can the Idiots have that they don't to become heroes. So I went through the list of Books, Movies, and Games, searching for those specific Idiots who didn't have the quality of or was close to the word "HERO" (Now according to the rules of stories everybody is who they are because that is how they were written to be) i found 6 and still searching and i am writing short novels (not much) that changed these people from the idiots they were in the past to the heroes they are in the Present. So what i'm asking is who can you think of who didn't match the hero concept and what can you think of that can make him/her into a hero?

(I hope i didn't violate any rules while writing this?)
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Blood Lord » Sun Apr 21, 2013 2:29 pm

It's an odd topic to be seen, but it doesn't violate any rules.
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Fievel - Numerous campaigns and conquests, countless bodies decaying after the abandonment of victorious battlefields. Such is the life of Blood Lord.
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby rac7d » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:04 am

Every shonen hero
are typically immature, naieve, moronic, stubborn etc
from naruto,goku ,yuske,luffy,zatch
can i throw in sora from kingdomhearts
but Idoit must be a synonym for Pure hearted or strong willed
therefore hero's
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Exodis » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:09 am

Yusuke Urameshi from Yu Yu Hakusho. He started as a complete prick (still is, though) but after saving a kid from a car accident, he died, did some good deeds, and he became a Spirit Detective! And he's a big idiot (he even says he's proud of having a 13% in a test with Kuwabara having a 12%).
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Maru » Wed Apr 24, 2013 10:08 pm

Lloyd Irving from Tales of...whichever it is. He literally started training with two swords because he thought he would get twice as strong.
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Blasphemy » Thu Apr 25, 2013 1:34 am

Maru wrote:Lloyd Irving from Tales of...whichever it is. He literally started training with two swords because he thought he would get twice as strong.


That would be Tales of Symphonia. He's certainly not the brightest bulb around, but he has a good heart which is a trait often found in heroes.
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Re: Who says idiots can't be heroes?

Postby Hell Princess Miko » Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:42 am

i can post examples too, in fact half the rooster in HEROES were idiots, could bet none of them knew how to use their powers at first, then comes the fact that the one with the most useless power "regeneration" is the one that would save the world so they have to save someone who is basically immortal, you might even feel dumber after watching the show, so it would be a decision of watching it or slamming your head on a wall, you will get the same result

and about random people or idiots, becoming heroes, everyone has their moment to shine, like in the power rangers show, the rangers were soundly defeated and powerless, still the villains wanted them dead, and the next you know is that Bulk and Skull, the morons you laugh so often at, are the first ones to "reveal" themselves as power rangers so as to save their heroes, then all the people in town joins them, or when Darkseid invaded the world, the first ones to oppose him were the non-superpowered humans, like the Detective Turpin, who gave his life to fend of the invaders, not exactly as planned but the Omega Sanction was not directed at "The Hero" who could withstand it, but at the common Hero who got reduced to ashes (and he was an average man, just another police man who got lucky to have a name)
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Re: Who says idiots can't be heroes?

Postby Tuor » Tue Apr 30, 2013 4:29 am

How is regeneration useless? It makes you practically invincible. That seems pretty useful to me.
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Who says idiots can't be heroes?

Postby Dibullba » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:13 am

Except that power of regeneration did have a weakness, just nobody in that show was smart enough to figure it out. Essentially any action that can shut down brain activity negates the capability to regenerate. Suffocation, decimating the brain, etc.
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Re: Who says idiots can't be heroes?

Postby The Mad Doctor » Tue Apr 30, 2013 5:18 am

Timelords can regenerate with a head blown off. Heck, they can regenerate with only a hand left if they have enough regeneration energy.
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Re: Who says Idiots can't be hero's?

Postby Rival » Tue Apr 30, 2013 7:29 am

My previous avatar Image was from Dash Kappei, a series parodying sports manga, it spoofs the notion that sports manga protagonists are considered heroic just for being good at sports, with the main character Kappei Sakamoto, whose only good at sports, but otherwise is an idiotic, obnoxious, selfish, disgusting and leecherous prick. But since it's a parody it probably doesn't count.
rac7d wrote:goku ,yuske

In the manga, while he really was an idiot at the start, once he became an adult, Goku was mostly really level-headed and quick to grasp stuff. It was Toei's anime version that added so many scenes where he's basically a 4 year old in the body of an adult.

As for Yuske, he's impatient, impulsive and careless, but I'd argue he's among the smartest shounen protagonists.

Seriously does this look like an idiot to you?
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I don't think so.
Randori wrote:Yusuke Urameshi from Yu Yu Hakusho. He started as a complete prick (still is, though) but after saving a kid from a car accident, he died, did some good deeds, and he became a Spirit Detective! And he's a big idiot (he even says he's proud of having a 13% in a test with Kuwabara having a 12%).

That's more him being a deliquent and underachiever, it's made pretty clear that if he bothered to learn he'd probably be pretty decent at school. Whereas Kuwabara probably already gave it his all.
Light10s wrote:I've watched and read DC Universe and Marvel i had not seen anyone who fit the description of Idiot. they were all perfect.

Rather than perfect I think you mean idealized. If that's the issue, the 3rd Ant-Man Eric O'Grady, was of average intelligence and was a loathsome, selfish crook who only did good to impress/be accepted by others.

Sadly, the character didn't take-off. Mostly due to using Hank Pym's iconic moniker, and comic book readers being touchy about "legacy tainting".
Last edited by Rival on Wed May 15, 2013 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Stanisław Lem wrote:I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.
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Re: Who says idiots can't be heroes?

Postby Light10s » Wed May 15, 2013 2:33 am

To the guy who just corrected my spelling at the beginning, yeeeaaah sorry about that I'm practically home everyday so my typing skills are getting rusty. And that thing you said about making your explanations shorter? Yeah well I'm like one of those guys who have all these ideas in his head and he can't come up with a simpler way to explain things so he just throws the words out, and try's to simplify it as best as he can and if it still doesn't make any scene he just leaves it up to others to try and make it simpler for him. But you are right, i'm gonna have to make since of what I'm saying. Either that or don't write anything at all, which is not cool because how can someone write how they feel if they can't make since of what there saying.

Back to the main topic, I think i should take back what i said on the second response, cause sometimes the obvious idiot will not always be the one we least expect to be a hero let alone have hero traits. I just found out that there were alot more Idiots who were the main characters, and they already had a hero in them or possessed hero trait, like Luffy, Naruto, Gintama, and so on.

There was one character who did catch my eye however, his name was Cody from "One Piece" (short little dude at the beginning of the story. He was an amateur who didn't have any backbone, guts or spirit, heck he even lacked faith in people. But he had a goal, a dream, and because of that (with a little help) he was bold enough to challenge a marine commander "A MARINE COMMANDER!" That is something only a gifted or experienced hero can do, and he did it. That is a hero trait, being able to stand up against impossible odds regardless of the position your in.
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Re: Who says idiots can't be heroes?

Postby Dibullba » Wed May 15, 2013 4:19 am

Eh, at least you use paragraphs. God forbid people on the internet not having people with wall text.
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