New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby rac7d » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:42 am

Is she transfrming ? Her skull lokks more montrous then any other clusterbot we have seen yet.
She also has only 3 fingers and spikes outlining her.

She is also spekaing differently to us now...... Weather or not the sword can cut through buttercup.If she remembers she is fighting to protect her sisther and not jjsut for the fun or beating and destroying somthing she shoudld be fine. Thats what jacks been teachin her right.

Is anyone else suprised her roboting from doesnt look like pepercat. By the way Samantha not butch she ballerina in training, im suprised none of that grace has shown up in the fights. Again I am very sad she wil be leaving us this year, the only suriving member is gonna be that green cluster bot, how come he cant die and sam live for the next arc to clash with buttercup. (My guees is to put blood on her hands, which will dissapont jack, further buttercups storyline)

Anyway bell is brilliant, she noticed girs duty mode and decided to create a way to switch it on if neccesary. Blossom might be smarter but the gap is not as wide as it is with her sisthers. At this point bell can pretty much smach her around, full fury and if blossom tries t counter or gurad gir jumps in from a blind spot. When bell moves she looks all wild when we saw her in the earyl chapter, her hair is defintly much longer( how much time has gone by since?)
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Mon Apr 15, 2013 9:51 am

I know Sam is a ballerina in training I was just poking some fun at her. But she obviously seems to be a character you like so I'm sorry for making a bit of fun at her. Although personally I don't think being a ballerina makes her any less of a tomboy, but that's just me. Although considering she's a villain in this I was more making fun of 'this' Sam than the canon one from Metabots. That's just my personal mind set with these comics, these aren't the same characters from the tv show,s their alternate versions of them in this none canon fan comic. It doesn't mean I like them less, I know that whatever happens in this comic doesn't affect the world they come from.

It would be cool if she did look more like Pepercat.

Also Bell never stuck me as someone whose very... smart. She seems to have as much brain power as a ditzy anime stereotype so I don't think she's the one who made it, unless she's just been playing dumb this whole time. Zim obviously didn't make it because he's an idiot. Maybe that one guy who runs the villain show made it.

And if Sam is going to die in a fight with Buttercup then it shouldn't be something that's directly Buttercup's fault.
Superheroes don't kill.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby rac7d » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:33 am

Mad-Mutt wrote:I know Sam is a ballerina in training I was just poking some fun at her. But she obviously seems to be a character you like so I'm sorry for making a bit of fun at her. Although personally I don't think being a ballerina makes her any less of a tomboy, but that's just me. Although considering she's a villain in this I was more making fun of 'this' Sam than the canon one from Metabots. That's just my personal mind set with these comics, these aren't the same characters from the tv show,s their alternate versions of them in this none canon fan comic. It doesn't mean I like them less, I know that whatever happens in this comic doesn't affect the world they come from.

It would be cool if she did look more like Pepercat.

Also Bell never stuck me as someone whose very... smart. She seems to have as much brain power as a ditzy anime stereotype so I don't think she's the one who made it, unless she's just been playing dumb this whole time. Zim obviously didn't make it because he's an idiot. Maybe that one guy who runs the villain show made it.

And if Sam is going to die in a fight with Buttercup then it shouldn't be something that's directly Buttercup's fault.
Superheroes don't kill.


I'm not mad or anything, it just not many people recognize sam becasue she from meadabots which asired on sunday morings like 10 years ago when i was 10 and I always liked her. I iwshed people recognized her on hre or they would make some singht to let people know who she was.

Its hard to be sure with bell she is an orginal chracter. Nut beeare said that bell is smarter then buttercup and bubbles. The whole playful kid thing is just how she is doesnt mean she not smart, no doubt her father educated her very well. Zim is not dumb he create incredble and powerful machines, he just a large ham which prevents him from doing any real damadge.( zim to me is very much like the CN version of mandark, (brillaint but to busy luaghing to get anything done)

It shoudnt be but it could be. It all depends on how we look at it. Untill recently we all thought sam was half human. Then it turn out she more robot then person. Now we know all that left is her brain. Each time we find less of her is human it becomes more acceptable for Buttercup to crush her without remorse. So far it doesnt look good for her. Oh and superheres do kill( ever heard of beware the superman or that new game injustice) anyeone is capable when puched far enough. Buttercup already a bloodknight and samantha been tuanting her her heavily. Jack can see somthing in her and has been trying to help her quell the rush she gets from fighting. Honestl it looks clear to me that were gonna see if buttercup can and will hold back and resstrain herself. I dont think it would take much to make buttercup a bad guy
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:56 am

Anything that has involved Superman killing people has been god awful and a complete detriment to his character.
Superman at Earth's End anyone? Superman using a giant gun, are you kidding me?
Yes I'm aware that superheroes have killed before in comics because of certain people doing whatever the hell they wanted to do. But that doesn't mean they should.
Superheroes don't kill, when they do they aren't superheroes anymore. They stand as the most predominant symbol of what's good and right, that's why they're superheroes.
There are people who are in the superheroes should kill camp, but I'm not one of them.
In a superman comic he asked the question, "What's so funny about truth justice and the American way?"
This was superman calling out another group of so-called superheroes calling themselves the Authority. They're called the Elite in the animated movie "Superman vs the Elite"
These guys would flat out kill criminals and eventually them and good old Superman came to blows with Superman winning without killing any of them.
The whole thing was a BIG call out to people who think that superheroes should kill by making their own side of the argument that they shouldn't and that's what makes them superheroes.

Killing should never be an option for a superhero, never. I'll let Batman pass on killing Dracula and if this Sam really is just a robot then maybe here to. Also Buttercup has already received training from her master on how to control her anger and I know that BeeAre knows this, because I've talked to him about the girls quite extensively.

(No he didn't tell me about the plot of PPGD because I didn't ask and I doubt he would've given me spoilers anyways)

For every thing you throw at me on how Superheroes can kill I can throw just about as much back on why they shouldn't and I've been reading comics for a long time. This is why when ever some heroes turn evil its met with a lot of negative results.

And there's a certain thing about killing, you can't just decide to take it back later. When you kill someone that doesn't go away, in some way they become a part of you, an ugly part that won't go away because you have to live with it. Some people aren't bothered by this... and I never want to meet the person who is.

Can Sam die in a fight with Buttercup? Yes. Should Buttercup beat her to death with her bare hands? I don't believe she should. Will she? I hope not. And if you think it wouldn't take much for Buttercup to turn evil than you obviously have a lot less faith in her than I do. But then again none of this is up to us, its up to BeeAre, and I believe from my talks with him that he does have the same amount of faith in all three girls that I do.

In PME, BeeAre puts Buttercup through the ringer and makes every bad thing happen to her that could, but you know what, Buttercup never changes her ways as a hero. Compared to Sam's taunting her, its a whole other story.

Superheroes are not killers. That's what makes them heroes.

"I'm no hero, I'm a murderer."
-Solid Snake

"I will never take a life, not even yours."
-Batman (to the Joker)
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby The Mad Doctor » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:35 am

What about anti-heroes like Deadpool and Anti-Venom? Surely those guys have been good guys and killed a lot at the same time.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:56 am

You just answered your own question.
Those are anti-heroes.
Yes they are on the side of good, but they do go to far. The Punisher is one the best examples of the anti-hero.
Punisher is not a superhero, yes the world he lives in will be a much better place after the people who he kills are gone, but that does not make what he's doing is right. And one could argue that he may just be creating more violence. And it was themselves who made them judge, jury and death dealer. But what right did they have to decide who lives and who dies? Who does? One thing I do like about anti-heroes is that they do raise these questions.
They've crossed the line and they've justified that killing is the right thing to do, but they do have their own set of moral, but they still are not superheroes they are anti-heroes. The main reason is because a superhero understand that they have the power to do great things and they have to take care that they don't misuse their powers. You know the whole, "With great power comes great responsibility," thing?

That's why anti-heroes like Punisher and especially Deadpool are sometimes the antagonists in certain stories.
In the punisher's first appearance he was the villain out to get Spiderman.
That's right Punisher started off as a Spiderman villain. As for Deadpool, he's more of a mercenary than anything else. He is known as "The Merc With the Mouth"

Anti-heroes have been on the rise because of our more cynical view points as a generation. Also, there is something cool about the bad-ass loner whose on the edge and might be a bit crazy and mentally unstable (Isn't that the same thing?) and has to dodge the cops every so often.

If I may point to Watchmen on the subject of anti-heroes vs Superheroes:

When writing Watchmen I doubt Allen Moore really viewed most of these characters as superheroes. Especially Rorschach and the Comedian. Out of the main cast I think the only real Superhero was Hollis Mason (the original Night Owl). He became a superhero because I felt like the city he lived in needed one and he didn't like other anti-heroes like the Comedian and Rorschach who would kill people. In fact he hated the Comedian.

Even though I do think his eventual death is sad it is kind of like Allen Moore making a statement against a generation who thinks that violence and killing is the best way to solve a problem. He didn't get an honorable or peaceful death, he was beaten to death by a bunch of punks who he would've gladly saved the lives of if he could. And it wasn't even for something he did.
At least Judge Dreed can only kill someone if he 100% sure they have it coming.

That's the difference between an anti-hero and a superhero. Superheroes are the symbols of good. While anti-heroes are darker and dangerous and respond to a violent world by being just as violent while Superheroes respond to a violent world by saving the day with out going to far in to the territory of taking a life.
I don't dislike anti-heroes, I think Wolverine is cool and I like the Punisher, but they aren't the symbols of good superheroes like Superman Batman and (the superheroes who led to this debate) the PPG are.

And yes I do count the PPG among the great superheroes of our generation. I've seen a few times where BeeAre has brought up how he's always wanted to see them potrayed as straight superheroes and has believed that they should be and I'm firmly on his side with this because I'm a huge fan of the original show myself. If I haven't already made that super obvious already.

I think there is a place for both these kinds of characters in our entertainment, but I also think that one should never be confused for or compared to the other.

What makes a Superhero what they are isn't superpowers. Batman doesn't have superpowers, but we call him a superhero. What makes a Superhero a super hero and not just a hero is that they make the stance that the human race can be as good as them morally. The whole point of Superman and his "Boy Scout" persona is that we all have it in us to be as good as him and a righteous as him if we want to. It is remarkably easy to kill a person these days. But it takes true strength not to and save the day without resorting to killing.

That's why I've always preferred superheroes to anti-heroes.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby CTCFirebird » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:44 pm

Batman is not a superhero. He's an anti-hero.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Mon Apr 15, 2013 3:58 pm

I disagree, Batman is a superhero in my opinion. He's dark and brooding, but I personally count him as a superhero.
He may be meaner and tougher than shit and isn't afraid to break a few bones to get what he needs, but he still has a code and there's a line that he will not cross.

And in the words of Frank Millar (before he lost his mind)

"You will never find a more pure and good superhero than Batman."

Not a direct quote, but that's the gist of what he wrote.

Then Frank lost it and gave us the "I'm the god damn Batman!" line while also turning Batman into a laughing nut job who beats the shit out of cops and kidnaps children and calls Robin a retard.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Tuor » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:03 pm

Convenient that he becomes a crazy person when he changes the character
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:17 pm

Who, Frank, well...
I hate to say it, but the guy has always been a bit... out there to me.
Lately the way he's been portraying Wonder Woman leads some to believe he might be sexist as well.

Quote from a comic reviewer of All Stars Batman and Robin: "Frank Millar seems to view Wonder Woman as a hypocritical angry bitch who hates men and breaks everything she touches and can only calm down when a big strong man like Superman is there to lip lock her."

I read that comic book and I don't know for sure if Frank is sexist or not (even though he can only seem to write female characters as whores since Sin City) but the was he writes Wonder Woman might be taken as offensive. But I'm not a lady so, what do I know.
But yeah, Frank seems to only write women as, well, whores. The one exception to this is Carrie and considering she's just a teenager, thank heaven for that. Glad to see that not even Frank is willing to go that far. But then again one other criticism I heard about that is that he just views teenage girls as someone who needs the protection of a big strong father figure.

Also if you're going to change a classic character to fit your own needs, it better be for the better. Some people have literally panned Dark Knight Returns for its treatment of Superman. And I happen to think the fanboys are right even though I do like that book. Superman is very out of character in it.

There's a lot more wrong with Frank than what he's done with Batman lately.

What was the name of that really offensive comic he made...
I think it was Holy Terror...
I can't remember, but I know that people are calling him a racist asshole for it. Personally I never read it because I don't want to read material like that so I have no idea if people are over reacting or not.

Edit: Decided to fact check my own over analyzing ass and I came up with this bit of criticism thrown at Holy Terror:

Upon release, Holy Terror was criticized as anti-Islamic propaganda. Spencer Ackerman of Wired said,

"Frank Miller doesn't do things halfway. One of the true comic-book greats, he’s created several of the most extraordinary stories ever to grace the art form. So perhaps it's fitting that now he's produced one of the most appalling, offensive and vindictive comics of all time ... Miller's Holy Terror is a screed against Islam, completely uninterested in any nuance or empathy toward 1.2 billion people he conflates with a few murderous conspiracy theorists."

Just looking a few pages of that comic made me feel... Uncomfortable.

And now that I think about it, I think this whole thing has gotten a bit to real.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby CTCFirebird » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:38 pm

Mad-Mutt wrote:I disagree, Batman is a superhero in my opinion. He's dark and brooding, but I personally count him as a superhero.
He may be meaner and tougher than shit and isn't afraid to break a few bones to get what he needs, but he still has a code and there's a line that he will not cross.

And in the words of Frank Millar (before he lost his mind)

"You will never find a more pure and good superhero than Batman."

Not a direct quote, but that's the gist of what he wrote.

Then Frank lost it and gave us the "I'm the god damn Batman!" line while also turning Batman into a laughing nut job who beats the shit out of cops and kidnaps children and calls Robin a retard.

You're right about that, but the thing is, is that Batman doesn't really give a shit about the people he team up with like the Justice League. That's why he has a backup plan to destroy them just in case if anything goes wrong. Everybody has a moral code they stand by. That goes for Superheroes, Supervillains, heroes, villains, and anti-heroes. To me, Batman is considered a anti-hero. Yes, some would call him a vigilante, fans call him a hero/superhero, but in psychological terms, he's known as an anti-hero. Throughout every situation Batman's been through in his own comics whether he's alone or teaming up with someone or whatever it may be, Batman is the smartest to figure out things, yes, but with keeping the good with his dark personality. Thinking about that, I would say so. Killing HAS crossed his mind quite a few times, but he thinks twice or three times before he does anything... despite pointing fingers at Frank Miller (not Millar as in Mark Millar). Batman has his own ways of doing things and so does Superman and the rest of them. Batman is different from all of them superheroes in the Justice League. Lots of people would say that Anti-heroes would kill, but you don't have to be an Anti-hero to kill. As The Rock would say, "IT DOESN'T MATTER!" You can create life and you can take it away. It's as simple as that, but if you live by moral standards/ moral code, it all depends on what you do... Uh... That defines you LOL

I think Anti-heroes are AWESOME! That's why I'm more fan of theirs than the average Superhero and Supervillain.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:54 pm

I agree anti-heroes are cool.
And I can't believe I've been misspelling Franks last name. DAMMIT.
As an over analyzing ass I should at least spell peoples names right. Shit on me.

Anyways its clear that we have our own opinions on Batman and I respect that. It does seem clear that we both do at least hold him high regard. I know killing has crossed his mind, but thinking and doing are two separate things. Mostly its been in relation to the Joker, because in some stories Joker has actually wanted Batman to kill him because if Batman does kill him then that mean Joker wins because in the Joker's mind that will prove that Batman is the same sick and crazy bastard that he is and by extension, we all are because he managed to make the one person who swore never to kill, kill. But he never does.

Maybe we can look at it this way.

There are different levels of anti-heroes as you stated.

Batman is at the level that doesn't kill and is a lot closer to being a superhero.

Others like the Punisher and good old Wolverine are at the level who do kill and are hardcore anti-heroes.

I still view Batman as a true superhero, but the argument that he's an anti-hero is not invalid if you look at it that way.

Okay, now we're back to talking about superheroes and anti-heroes. This is way better than what was going on in my last post.

Also Batman and Superman are best friends, they've said that. Out loud and we had interior monologue that confirms that Bruce wasn't lying.
He's also been romantically involved with Wonder Woman.
I think he cares about them. At least in the stories I've read and watched.
Although those "contingency" plans he has incase any of them go evil is kind of rough around the edges (but smart).
Batman always assumed that the others had plans for him incase he turned bad.

As for the other people Batman teams up with (Robin, Batgirl Nightwing, ect.) he also cares a lot about them.
Hell after what the Joker did Jason Todd Batman became really depressed. Then Jason came back as Red Hood.
Batman care about these people, he does give a shit.
I once saw Batman take a bullet for a thug that just tried to kill him and nearly die.
Batman cares a lot.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby CTCFirebird » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:21 pm

True. Considering that Superman is part of the Bat-Family. ANYONE back in the 80's could've seen that happening.
Superman and Batman has been romantically involved with Wonder Woman. LOL

A few good comic book artist know me personally, but little bit more with UDON Comics.
lol Batman is both our favorite. I agree to that last post you pointed at
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:26 pm

That's cool that you know some comic book artists.
Its actually been fun to talk about superheroes with you guys.
I don't get to do this often.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby rac7d » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:32 pm

I feel as if i got this thread off topic by mentioning DC( ps Injustice gods among comes out tommorow bitches hell yeah)
But anyway i was just refrencing it becasue i feel like there ptential for buttercup here do to somthing event changing.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:35 pm

@rac7d

I don't think you did anything wrong so don't worry about it. All it was, was just a friendly debate. Its not like anyone got into a fight or anything so its all good.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby CTCFirebird » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:47 pm

Mad-Mutt wrote:That's cool that you know some comic book artists.
Its actually been fun to talk about superheroes with you guys.
I don't get to do this often.

:) yeah With me, I'm more of an underground, but I do go to conventions like NY Comic Con and Megacon.

Usually, guys like Alvin Lee, Jim Zubkavich, Joe Weems, Kevin Yan, Jamie Tyndall(facebook aquaintance), Edwin Huang, Stanley Lau (well there are times where he tries to remember me lol) Arnold Tsang (facebook aquaintance) and a few more (too many to name) Plus, I have friends at a comic store known as 'A Comic Shop' in FL.

If you seen my Mighty Morphin' Power Ranger art work here (also in my DeviantArt page), that's a good example, but that was for a school project that I did with a couple friends of mine doing Mocap. I think I will show it here. lol I studied a little bit of Jim Lee style here and there. But he's waaaay better than I am lol I keep practicing.

Yeah, you rather know the ones who are humble and hang with them. They are cool to talk to and stuff

@ rac7d- Please don't confuse the words 'then' and 'than' lol
Yeah, no one fought here. Or maybe we got into a "Programmable Hatred" LOL who knows :)
Last edited by CTCFirebird on Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:50 pm

Cool, I'm practicing to draw comics myself, but I'm a long ways away from doing it professionally, but I'm still working hard.
You keep practicing too and who knows, you might make something really cool that gets a lot of notice.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby CTCFirebird » Mon Apr 15, 2013 7:05 pm

Mad-Mutt wrote:Cool, I'm practicing to draw comics myself, but I'm a long ways away from doing it professionally, but I'm still working hard.
You keep practicing too and who knows, you might make something really cool that gets a lot of notice.

Cool Same to you, Mad-Mutt!
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby BeeAre » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:33 pm

Joker-Undead wrote:Holy crap, Samantha's cybernetics are getting more monsterous here.


oh good somebody is noticing the steady deterioration.

Mon-Kitsune wrote:
TheMadDoctor wrote:Maybe the skin is bigger on the inside, it can happen. The slitheen did it XD.

It occurs to me that, as a lot of Sam's tech is probably Cluster derived, she more likey would have a version of whatever Vexis used to change.


Where does any of the technology that is put to use by My Life As A Teenage Robot's titular character go when she's not using it? It's all Hammerspace or Tardis-grade Inventory.

Mad-Mutt wrote:I agree about Buttercup.
Especially after that old kung-fu master taught her how to control her anger and did the whole "be like water" thing.
For those of you who don't know that IS cannon, Buttercup has actually received training under a master.
Isn't that awesome?


Buttercup's passing understanding of enlightenment could be undercut severely if she, say, her family had to move. She can fly back, yes, this is demonstrably easy for her, but the fact is she's overwhelmed by the degree of change like a lot of kids who move. Her life takes precedence, and she finds a new master who is also her crush.

Mad-Mutt wrote:I know Sam is a ballerina in training I was just poking some fun at her. But she obviously seems to be a character you like so I'm sorry for making a bit of fun at her. Although personally I don't think being a ballerina makes her any less of a tomboy, but that's just me. Although considering she's a villain in this I was more making fun of 'this' Sam than the canon one from Metabots. That's just my personal mind set with these comics, these aren't the same characters from the tv show,s their alternate versions of them in this none canon fan comic. It doesn't mean I like them less, I know that whatever happens in this comic doesn't affect the world they come from.


I did some interesting research into Samantha and found her background in Medabots to be rather interesting. Tomboy ballerina is very quickly a presumed cultural contrast. A good point to bring up in another time and place. Heh. HEH.

rac7d wrote: Also Bell never stuck me as someone whose very... smart. She seems to have as much brain power as a ditzy anime stereotype so I don't think she's the one who made it, unless she's just been playing dumb this whole time. Zim obviously didn't make it because he's an idiot. Maybe that one guy who runs the villain show made it.


Bell is, if you recall, a vast and ghostly white to deal with her status as a planned reconstruction of an accident. In one of my first posts on the board, I described the idea that Bell's focused creation left her with at least a part of all three girls' dominant personalities. Her strongest manifestation of Blossom is so far her sense of loyalty and duty.

And if Sam is going to die in a fight with Buttercup then it shouldn't be something that's directly Buttercup's fault.
Superheroes don't kill.


Mad-Mutt wrote:Superheroes are not killers. That's what makes them heroes.


Hmmm, I would this is a good rule of thumb, yes. How far does that line go? HOW CAN YOU KILL THAT WHICH HAS NO LIFE? No but seriously, what counts as killing?
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:58 pm

Oh, hello there BeeAre, nice of you to join the conversation.

In response to your last question BeeAre:

Just how "Non-Human" is Sam in this comic. I don't know much about Metabots myself having seen only a few episodes, so has Sam always been a robot or was she once a human being. Because if she was human I'd count that as killing, but if you were able to work in a way to counter it then I'd maybe let it pass.

The reason why I let it slide when Batman killed Dracula is because,
1: Batman tried to cure Dracula first which didn't work.
2: Batman saw him as nothing more than a monster and Dracula was pretty much undead already.

"Injustice: Gods Among Us" was brought up earlier and I'd like to use that as an example to help prove why I think its always bad when a superhero resorts to killing.

I'll be talking about the story mode, which I thought was pretty good and I'll put it in spoilers because I'm talking about plot points:

I want to state first that I've talked with soldiers and the like and (even though I've never killed before) I can be pretty sure from what these guys have told me that killing really does %$# you up inside. It does things to you and none of it is good.

   So in the game's story, Superman kills the Joker after being drugged into thinking Lois is really Doomsday and killing her with his bare hands. Oh, and Lois was pregnant.
But before I can get pissed off it turns out that wasn't our Superman, but an alternate reality Superman who (may have been) every bit as good as ours.
Now alternate Superman went from killing the Joker, one of the most evil and vile bastards in the DCU to enslaving the world.
When Superman crossed the line it went from bad too worse. Yes, Joker did push him to the edge, but when he crossed the line there was no turning back. This has been done before in other story lines. There was one where Superman killed Lex Luthor in an alternate universe during the Justice League animated series.
Anyways, Tyrant Superman also kills Green Arrow, Shazam (who I should point out is really a little kid!) a good guy alternate version of Lex and countless more people off screen. In short the guy had become just as evil as the Joker. Assuming that alternate universe Superman was very similar to ours, this was one of the most kind hearted and good natured men who ever lived and he became Hitler with superpowers. Eventually they bring good Superman over to fight Tyrant Superman (which is the best way that could have ended) and they fight, but not before they have a brief debate over what's right and what's wrong.   


As I said before, killing %$# you up inside.
And not even purposeful killing either, even killing someone by mistake or indirectly can really mess a person up.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby The Mad Doctor » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:03 pm

BeeAre wrote:
And if Sam is going to die in a fight with Buttercup then it shouldn't be something that's directly Buttercup's fault.
Superheroes don't kill.


Mad-Mutt wrote:Superheroes are not killers. That's what makes them heroes.


Hmmm, I would this is a good rule of thumb, yes. How far does that line go? HOW CAN YOU KILL THAT WHICH HAS NO LIFE? No but seriously, what counts as killing?

It depends on whats left of the person that's alive. Cybermen were once humans, and its okay to kill them. Anti heroes like Deadpool have no remorse when they kill. Considering that the only emotion that wasn't deleted in Sam is hate, Buttercup will be just fine killing her.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:15 pm

Maybe, its obvious by the way she's drawn in that page and her manner of speaking that she's being demonized to look like some kind of robotic monster.

At this point, considering Buttercup doesn't know Sam, she probably just thinks she's nothing more than a robot.
Bad news for both of them I think.

Bad news for Sam because Buttercup won't hold back and she can lift pieces of a mountain at full strength and bad for Buttercup because she may destroy what's left of what was once a person.

If Sam has already destroyed everything that made her a person then I feel sorry for that girl.
If she still has hate, that's still a human emotion, machines don't feel hate. But is it human enough for her to still be human? To still have what may be a soul?

In the end its up to the writer.


"Who would win in a fight between Batman and Spiderman?"
-Random Guy

"It depends on the writer."
-Stan Lee

Doesn't always mean we have to agree with it, but what really is left of Sam if she's sold her soul for a new shiny body. Or does she have something left inside. Hate is a human emotion. An emotion we all know too well.

Edit: ... Is this getting too real again?
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby The Mad Doctor » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:37 pm

Mad-Mutt wrote:Maybe, its obvious by the way she's drawn in that page and her manner of speaking that she's being demonized to look like some kind of robotic monster.

At this point, considering Buttercup doesn't know Sam, she probably just thinks she's nothing more than a robot.
Bad news for both of them I think.

Bad news for Sam because Buttercup won't hold back and she can lift pieces of a mountain at full strength and bad for Buttercup because she may destroy what's left of what was once a person.

If Sam has already destroyed everything that made her a person then I feel sorry for that girl.
If she still has hate, that's still a human emotion, machines don't feel hate. But is it human enough for her to still be human? To still have what may be a soul?

In the end its up to the writer.


"Who would win in a fight between Batman and Spiderman?"
-Random Guy

"It depends on the writer."
-Stan Lee

Doesn't always mean we have to agree with it, but what really is left of Sam if she's sold her soul for a new shiny body. Or does she have something left inside. Hate is a human emotion. An emotion we all know too well.

Edit: ... Is this getting too real again?

Emotions can be programed into robots. The only emotions Daleks have are hate and fear. And the Doctor enjoys killing them anyway.
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Re: New PPGD: "Programmable Hatred" (4/12/13)

Postby Mad-Mutt » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:39 pm

At what point does one develop a soul even if its a machine?

(Says the guy whose watched Blade Runner waaay too much)

"Whose to say our hearts and souls aren't just play things invented by God?"
-Junior

I prefer not to believe this and I do agree with what you said in some way Doc. But it is kind of... sad when you spend too much time thinking about it.

Something I seem to do often.
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