Hm. Perhaps I jumped the gun. But why, if it does come to about 70% of registered voters, do the numbers still don't seem to add up? How do they get more than double cards cast then?Valhallen wrote:Since the presidential ballots counted are more like 70% of registered voters instead of 140%, do you concede that your linked article is much ado about nothing?
You mean a huge expansion of government intervention into our lives. It gives you a somewhat one-sided choice of either paying out money for health insurance or paying out money to the government. It forces insurance companies to cover things that may be against their religion (the whole Birth Control debate, et al). It creates new "task forces" which monitor the program to see how they can cut wasteful spending. It creates several new agencies. Most of the plan is not in effect until 2014, fully effective in 2020, but meanwhile it's still legal for them to collect the tax.Valhallen wrote:To the actual liberals in the world, most of Obama's policies as implemented are indeed very conservative. For example, Obama didn't even propose single-payer health insurance as a negotiating position, while Obamacare as implemented is a huge expansion of private insurance.
Even if you like the plan or think it would be a good thing to implement, there is nothing at all "conservative" about this plan.
That's a rather bad interpretation of what they wrote. Geez, it's like we're reading two entirely different pieces. Here's a snippet that may help the situation.Valhallen wrote:And that's a terrible definition (not that it actually defines what Conservatism is). Conservatives don't want to pay for things they already bought (i.e. raise the debt ceiling or taxes), and they reject the notion of compromise out of hand? "...the core principles of a small government and fiscal responsibility..."?Rough Giraffe wrote:I think what it comes down to is a definition of Conservatism. We seem to be using different definitions.
The point is not "Conservatives do not compromise," and you seem to have missed it entirely. Are you not guilty of having steadfast ideology as well? Every time we debate, you always think your way is right, do you not? And if I offer a position counter to it, do you ALWAYS compromise between your position and mine? And if not, how do you differ from a Conservative such as how you describe above?If you believe that murder is evil, you do not compromise and say, “Well, I think murder is evil and you think murder is good, therefore we should compromise and say some murder is evil and some ok.” And absurd example, for sure, but it makes a solid point. If you have really thought out a number of issues, have seen their effects in the real world on real people, then you are going to be less inclined to surrender ground to ideas that perpetuate the very problems you are trying to solve. This certainly does not mean that every idea a conservative has is ideological, or true, or exempt from compromise. But, it does mean that the closer an idea comes to the core of your belief system the harder it is to compromise on it, the less inclined you should be to compromise on it, and the better for all that you articulate it well and often, and help everyone understand your view.
Or rather, might we say we are trying to conserve virtue, in a time where, just as an example, personal virtue is often cast aside to find a scapegoat for one's hardships?Valhallen wrote:I think that DaCrum was using something more like the dictionary definition: "1. disposed to preserve existing conditions, institutions, etc., or to restore traditional ones, and to limit change."
Rather, I started working on it, but never got around to finish. Relevance aside, it is also extremely long. I suppose if I answer something here I can cut it from the other reply?Valhallen wrote:Please read that big post of mine. it really is terribly relevant.
I really, seriously hope I am wrong on this one. I hope it does not happen. But, IF it does happen... will you still support Obama?Valhallen wrote:He's been President for almost four years now. If he really wanted to restrict gun rights, why wouldn't he do it in his first term rather than waiting for and gambling on the availability of a second term?