Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Q.U. » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:19 pm

It's why I've been asking for ideas and help. Because we need to change. At this point, the likely best thing would be if you all literally emailed Dave using the Shark Robot site contact email with the subject title "PLEASE RESPOND TO BR".

Indeed. You guys who call yourselves the Spam forum. Dave's inbox isn't even half-full yet. What a bloody disgrace.

By the way BR, do you think making a forum section/subforum for discussion of Shark Robot merchandise, suggestions, and chat about conventions is a little too much on the "trying too hard" side?
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby IcyBoomer » Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:28 pm

Darn read the info of being a member and I can see why they never allow me to join Gold groups....TOO MUCH WORK!!! :'(
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby NeoWarrior7 » Wed Sep 12, 2012 5:13 pm

We'll see I guess.
I still think you're overstating how bad it would be to have an open forum for change discussion rather than a "special" caste one.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Sentios » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:16 pm

BeeAre wrote:Now this irritates me just a little bit. This forum's stagnation comes from the users' being content? That's funny, because the active and current moderation and administration staff are not content at all with the forums' current state of being.


You misread my post clearly. The reason no one says 'this forum sucks we should change it' is because most people are content with it. That has nothing to do with the board being stagnant, which is caused by not having a way to draw in users.

Recognizing this challenge is a part of why we are attempting to use this system at all.


The system does nothing to bring new users to the board, no one will join a board just to rank up through it, this isn't an MMO it's a forum. They're separate issues which a lot of the advocates don't seem to be making the distinction between.

Do you think offering privilege and friendship in an upwardly mobile way is an insulating idea?


That's the packaging of the idea you're trying to sell not the idea you're trying to sell itself, nothing about the ranking system will inherently promote any more friendship. Sure you can say 'if they won't be nice they'll lose that distinction and whatever privileges come with it' but in order to give the ranks power over user's behavior you must give the different ranks privileges which is an inherent division in the user base. It can likely instigate the formation of cliques, but who knows we might get lucky and it won't this time.

How about convincing Dave to make this not Snafu's forums, but Shark Robot's forums, so he has a hub he actually fucking cares about, so we can actually have an influx of members, if his merchandising scales are increasing as reported by people who have actually gone to cons.


Probably a good way to get more members, but this has nothing to do with the ranking system.

Saving grace; at least you do seem to actually care, brudski, otherwise you (and a few others) would've seriously gotten me as close to angry as I've gotten in years (because it's physically unhealthy for me to be angry).

I'm not a programmer: I am here to administrate issues through authority and delegation by way of taking advice from the userbase to improve the forums. I don't think that, even at my current level of administration, I have access to "Founder" level permissions that would allow me to upgrade the software. The links you've provided are helpful for Founders. For people who made their forums. I don't discount your contribution despite them looking a bit irrelevant, with a lot of the options referring to introducing Captchas, et cetra, which I am not sure I can do.

It's why I've been asking for ideas and help. Because we need to change. At this point, the likely best thing would be if you all literally emailed Dave using the Shark Robot site contact email with the subject title "PLEASE RESPOND TO BR".


I care but I'm not about to lie and say I think we can turn this into a popular forum by giving it a face lift and some tags. That doesn't give respect to the true difficulty of what it means to revitalize a forum.

Methods for preventing bots from registering will likely all be Founder level (modifying the registration forms or even the board's files directly), it's kind of an impossible we're asking of each other, that's why I also suggested just making janitors as that definitely is within your permissions.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby BeeAre » Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:32 pm

Sentios wrote:
BeeAre wrote:Now this irritates me just a little bit. This forum's stagnation comes from the users' being content? That's funny, because the active and current moderation and administration staff are not content at all with the forums' current state of being.


You misread my post clearly. The reason no one says 'this forum sucks we should change it' is because most people are content with it. That has nothing to do with the board being stagnant, which is caused by not having a way to draw in users.


Whoa whoa whoa, what? I am not sure I'm doing the misreading here. You're saying most people are content. I'm saying that a specific group of people, the people given authority, are not. The board is stagnant under our supervision, which means it is our prerogative if not our responsibility to come up with a way to keep the forum stable, which is hard when it is stagnating because of a decision we made and at the time considered necessary. It's still in effect, too, so we still think it's necessary.

Recognizing this challenge is a part of why we are attempting to use this system at all.


The system does nothing to bring new users to the board, no one will join a board just to rank up through it, this isn't an MMO it's a forum. They're separate issues which a lot of the advocates don't seem to be making the distinction between.


It all hinges on Dave's attention, all our hopes and dreams of improving this board, that's right. Forgive me for my optimism.

Do you think offering privilege and friendship in an upwardly mobile way is an insulating idea?


That's the packaging of the idea you're trying to sell not the idea you're trying to sell itself, nothing about the ranking system will inherently promote any more friendship. Sure you can say 'if they won't be nice they'll lose that distinction and whatever privileges come with it' but in order to give the ranks power over user's behavior you must give the different ranks privileges which is an inherent division in the user base. It can likely instigate the formation of cliques, but who knows we might get lucky and it won't this time.


Division in the user base happens naturally. You and I and everyone else already knows this, but check this out: kids' cereals in the 60s. Companies were afraid to sell sugar-filled cereals because parents might complain about giving children unhealthy amounts of sugar. What happened? Kids didn't like fucking cheerios and shit with no sugar, so they poured a shit ton on by themselves in an uncontrolled environment. So the parents and companies agreed: control the level of sugar in the cereal so the kid has much less incentive to pour on more sugar and get diabetes.

Does the idea at least sound a LITTLE less retarded to you given which way I'm angled towards?

How about convincing Dave to make this not Snafu's forums, but Shark Robot's forums, so he has a hub he actually fucking cares about, so we can actually have an influx of members, if his merchandising scales are increasing as reported by people who have actually gone to cons.


Probably a good way to get more members, but this has nothing to do with the ranking system.


A ranking system is a neat way for an influx of users via this integration concept to energize the community by way of an interesting system of involvement. It's not just another forum, it's a forum with toys! Shiny!

Saving grace; at least you do seem to actually care, brudski, otherwise you (and a few others) would've seriously gotten me as close to angry as I've gotten in years (because it's physically unhealthy for me to be angry).

I'm not a programmer: I am here to administrate issues through authority and delegation by way of taking advice from the userbase to improve the forums. I don't think that, even at my current level of administration, I have access to "Founder" level permissions that would allow me to upgrade the software. The links you've provided are helpful for Founders. For people who made their forums. I don't discount your contribution despite them looking a bit irrelevant, with a lot of the options referring to introducing Captchas, et cetra, which I am not sure I can do.

It's why I've been asking for ideas and help. Because we need to change. At this point, the likely best thing would be if you all literally emailed Dave using the Shark Robot site contact email with the subject title "PLEASE RESPOND TO BR".


I care but I'm not about to lie and say I think we can turn this into a popular forum by giving it a face lift and some tags. That doesn't give respect to the true difficulty of what it means to revitalize a forum.


I agree with you on this, which is why I need the entire forum's help to get Dave up off Shark Robot and do something about the forums that would benefit him and us both.

Methods for preventing bots from registering will likely all be Founder level (modifying the registration forms or even the board's files directly), it's kind of an impossible we're asking of each other, that's why I also suggested just making janitors as that definitely is within your permissions.


That contingency has already been discussed and will be implemented if we can't ever get Dave to help us. So there's not even discussion on that at this point.

If we have to, we'll just fucking give veterans the ability to ban what they suspect are bots, but then we'd be kinda 1984ish because all of you would have to watch each other to make sure no one banned anyone else. It's not a very promising scenario, either, if you really break it down, given how some people here can be stupid.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Q.U. » Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:37 am

Sentios wrote:The system does nothing to bring new users to the board

We don't have a direct method of influencing the amount of new people coming to the site or forums. If BR had the power to add/remove comics on the site we would, but we don't. That's right, think all you want it's still the comics that actually get new users to come. All we can influence, which is still next to impossible without at least the slightest bit of help from Dave, is how many of the new users have the incentive to stay on the forum.
We're not even hoping to make the forum "popular" again, just to make it "stable" in terms of activity.

We do realise many of you guys are concerned, we can see that. It seems though like you guys don't have the slightest bit of trust in BR and the rest in what is being attempted here. I'm trying to see it from your position and that's why I said, if you're going to look on the changes we've done or somewhat vaguely mentioned so far, and judge that the final product will look like that, you will be mistaken. We have not provided you guys with enough information to enable you to accurately judge the outcomes. And that's because we are still working on issues and ideas in progress, and thus don't share them with you guys. I realise this may be frustrating to see when mods just keep saying "hey, hear me out, this isn't going to be so terrible", but the pictures we're both seeing is a little different guys. Heck some of you guys come here arguing points we've already argued through and problems we've already decided how to counter. So if it feels to you guys that we're ignoring your opinions it's not because we don't give a crap what you think, it's because we are still shaping the final ideas and making decisions.

And sorry, we can't keep you guys all updated with every idea that comes up. So far it's been a bunch of things that we "did", some that we "tested", many that we "want to implement" and then those we "wish we could implement", as well as those "we could implement if Dave actually does something". There's still too much uncertainty as to what we will be actually able to do and what we will actually do, even we don't know yet, so even we aren't making big predictions ourselves as to what the outcome will be. We will have to figure it out as we go along.

It's baffling for me to see some of you panic that we're destroying the forum and the site when the only thing we actually implemented so far, aside from small fixes, is the probation system. And nobody seems to be complaining that it was a retarded idea that's going to destroy the forum.

NeoWarrior7 wrote:We'll see I guess.
I still think you're overstating how bad it would be to have an open forum for change discussion rather than a "special" caste one.

It's not that "it would be a terrible idea", we're not that dramatic about it. It will simply make it easier and more fluent. Having some long-term users be able to be adding suggestions the users would like to see implemented. This way we can avoid having to squeeze through dozens of impossible, unwanted, hyped, and repeated suggestions that will never happen trying to dig out those with actual potential. Hey even the newbies can have a good idea or a suggestion. They will be able to easily gain the ability to read that forum, and they will always have the ability to at least propose something. Heck, even newbies who can't even see or read the forum will still be able to submit a suggestion for discussion if they come up with something good. We just don't think we need to flood those threads with users.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Ro Wong » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:20 am

Q.U. wrote:
NeoWarrior7 wrote:We'll see I guess.
I still think you're overstating how bad it would be to have an open forum for change discussion rather than a "special" caste one.

It's not that "it would be a terrible idea", we're not that dramatic about it. It will simply make it easier and more fluent. Having some long-term users be able to be adding suggestions the users would like to see implemented. This way we can avoid having to squeeze through dozens of impossible, unwanted, hyped, and repeated suggestions that will never happen trying to dig out those with actual potential. Hey even the newbies can have a good idea or a suggestion. They will be able to easily gain the ability to read that forum, and they will always have the ability to at least propose something. Heck, even newbies who can't even see or read the forum will still be able to submit a suggestion for discussion if they come up with something good. We just don't think we need to flood those threads with users.


On that: It's not exactly a big issue moreso with the fact that anyone could just go into...Wham and just create a thread and ask for serious discussion on an idea proposal. Nevermind the general discussion threads of TTT and Weirdness.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Dorian » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:29 am

Q.U. wrote:Also, to people advocating against much change, especially those who don't want changes in the forum style and looks. Is this, the current version of the forum style, your favourite? How long has it been your favourite? Probably soon after or shortly after it was implemented. What style was your favourite before that change? The previous one? If so, since when has that one been your favourite? Think back and be honest. Whenever there was a style you liked and felt like this was the best one yet, how would you respond to an announcement that the forum style was going to change?

We're walking a fine line between "change for the sake of change" and "no change because we got used to it as it is".


...Dude. You're so smart. I never would have thought that I had no opinions of my own and just liked whatever I got used to. What a revelation! Thank you!

Also for the record, I may have missed the part where 'probation system' was discussed before but if it is what I think it is then it's a great idea. This part is not sarcasm.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Ro Wong » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:42 am

They already used it on a guy who was posting in the application thread, if you wanna see what little bits it'll change when in effect.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Izanagi » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:28 am

Sentios wrote:That's the packaging of the idea you're trying to sell not the idea you're trying to sell itself, nothing about the ranking system will inherently promote any more friendship. Sure you can say 'if they won't be nice they'll lose that distinction and whatever privileges come with it' but in order to give the ranks power over user's behavior you must give the different ranks privileges which is an inherent division in the user base. It can likely instigate the formation of cliques, but who knows we might get lucky and it won't this time.

You mean more cliques than we have right now, right? Because currently we're not exactly short of them.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Sentios » Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:31 pm

BeeAre wrote:Whoa whoa whoa, what? I am not sure I'm doing the misreading here. You're saying most people are content. I'm saying that a specific group of people, the people given authority, are not. The board is stagnant under our supervision, which means it is our prerogative if not our responsibility to come up with a way to keep the forum stable, which is hard when it is stagnating because of a decision we made and at the time considered necessary. It's still in effect, too, so we still think it's necessary.


So what you're saying is you don't care if other people like the forum as it is (except for the lack of users) you and your cohorts, specifically, don't so things are going to change. I'm glad we're being honest now.

Division in the user base happens naturally. You and I and everyone else already knows this, but check this out: kids' cereals in the 60s. Companies were afraid to sell sugar-filled cereals because parents might complain about giving children unhealthy amounts of sugar. What happened? Kids didn't like fucking cheerios and shit with no sugar, so they poured a shit ton on by themselves in an uncontrolled environment. So the parents and companies agreed: control the level of sugar in the cereal so the kid has much less incentive to pour on more sugar and get diabetes.

Does the idea at least sound a LITTLE less retarded to you given which way I'm angled towards?


You think that parents meet up with companies to discuss the sugar content of cereal? Have you had Val fact check that for you, because you should. http://www.foodpolitics.com/wp-content/ ... report.pdf Rather than parents agreeing to it's more like advertising for it became more pervasive. Also the rates for childhood diabetes certainly haven't gone down since your theoretical agreement so your example would give the forum diabetes.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Mir@k » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:01 pm

I don't understand where you're going with this conversation anymore, i mean without meaning to offend changes are going to come no matter how much a few individuals protest, nothing anyone says will stop this and it would be better if people sucked it up instead of taking shits on something that hasn't even happened yet. This is turning into a "complaining for the sake of complaining thread rather than a pool for suggestions. :/
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Marquis de Soth » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:05 pm

Tell you what, Sentios. I want you to compile a list of statements showing explicit contentedness from at least 51% of the members of the forum and then PM it us. Also provide the method that you are using to gather this information as well as any questions that you use (so that we can be sure that you aren't biasing opinions by asking loaded questions).

I, and I am sure the rest of the team, would like to see explicit proof of this "most people". Thank you.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Izanagi » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:06 pm

Mir@k wrote:This is turning into a "complaining for the sake of complaining thread rather than a pool for suggestions. :/

Yeah, actual constructive criticism would be nice rather than "I HATE CHANGE LET'S NOT DO THIS WAAAAAH."

excluding Dorian
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Mir@k » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:09 pm

Warbear wrote:
Mir@k wrote:This is turning into a "complaining for the sake of complaining thread rather than a pool for suggestions. :/

Yeah, actual constructive criticism would be nice rather than "I HATE CHANGE LET'S NOT DO THIS WAAAAAH."
The problem here being that they think what they're saying is "constructive".
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Why, was anyone remotedly intimidated by his "waaah you guys quit picking on my shit attitude or i'll leave eh? i'm serious!!!!" post?
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Izanagi » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:11 pm

I don't think constructive is saying "you guys are just changing for the sake of changing" and arguing it into the ground until everyone involved is frustrated as all hell.

I dunno. I've never seen him around much anyway, so it wouldn't be a huge change.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Ro Wong » Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:54 pm

Well, if all that showed me anything, it's this: Contention's a hell of a drug.

Sen, I understand you don't agree with them, that's fine. But discussion of these events requires solid facts. Your opinion on the matter is a fine basis, but please do not argue purely upon opinions. As we saw, it just continues to bounce back and forth causing irritation toward the subject. Soth's suggestion is a good course to take right now, and I'm sure a bit of time off the subject will calm some tension.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby BeeAre » Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:11 pm

Sentios wrote:
So what you're saying is you don't care if other people like the forum as it is (except for the lack of users) you and your cohorts, specifically, don't so things are going to change. I'm glad we're being honest now.


Yes. We, the people in charge, don't like how the forum is slowly dying due to a lack of care. We, the people in charge. Though, if you want to make me look like a supervillain by using the word cohorts as if that weren't dramatic, yes, my and my minions want to reign supreme over this fucking wasteland and we consider reigning supreme having the people who live in it be happier. I'm not kidding: we want things to change because we all have reached an agreement that the way things are now suck. Sorry that we disagree on that opinion, but you know what? I want you to be able to voice it. I'm not going to stifle you. I'll keep arguing, for eternity if necessary, but I won't stop you. You are a respected individual and I will give you your piece, since you've proven to me by your actions that you legitimately want things to progress, if not in the manner as we are currently suggesting, then at least to progress at all.

And, for the posterity our solitary probated member (currently) potentially noticing what he might believe to be hypocrisy in my statements here: Notice how Sentios' language doesn't consistently assume hostility in my tone, but in my ideas. He doesn't have a persecution complex when he explains his concerns.

Sentios wrote:
BeeAre wrote:Division in the user base happens naturally. You and I and everyone else already knows this, but check this out: kids' cereals in the 60s. Companies were afraid to sell sugar-filled cereals because parents might complain about giving children unhealthy amounts of sugar. What happened? Kids didn't like fucking cheerios and shit with no sugar, so they poured a shit ton on by themselves in an uncontrolled environment. So the parents and companies agreed: control the level of sugar in the cereal so the kid has much less incentive to pour on more sugar and get diabetes.

Does the idea at least sound a LITTLE less retarded to you given which way I'm angled towards?


You think that parents meet up with companies to discuss the sugar content of cereal? Have you had Val fact check that for you, because you should. http://www.foodpolitics.com/wp-content/ ... report.pdf Rather than parents agreeing to it's more like advertising for it became more pervasive. Also the rates for childhood diabetes certainly haven't gone down since your theoretical agreement so your example would give the forum diabetes.


Wonderful that part of my argument was an assumption, because we're both assuming a bit. Barring the bad assumption I made, I think the point I am trying to make is that People Can Be Stupid and a measure of control is not terrible, especially if it is at every level managed properly. Ultimately, I'm a tinpot dictator at best, and can be ousted by the real God of the forums if he ever comes back to see any of this discussion.

Lastly: Diabetes. As if the forum didn't already have it. So we are merely shifting the nature of the diabetes to one more easily managed. If that's Mengele-grade medicine for you, I apologize sincerely.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby BobSagat » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:06 pm

Mir@k wrote:I don't understand where you're going with this conversation anymore, i mean without meaning to offend changes are going to come no matter how much a few individuals protest, nothing anyone says will stop this and it would be better if people sucked it up instead of taking shits on something that hasn't even happened yet. This is turning into a "complaining for the sake of complaining thread rather than a pool for suggestions. :/

I kinda question the point of having this thread if you're so adamant about not listening to anyone.

If you don't intend on consulting the people of this forum on whether or not these changes are in our interests then how can you claim to be working to improve this forum if you're okay with alienating forum members and ignoring their opinions?

Honestly, I've only been skimming this thread ever since I bought some respite for my eyes with the gold color change (thanks for that), but I couldn't resist responding to Mirak's post.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Mir@k » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:39 pm

Because one post is all you need to say "i don't like change", you don't need to constantly barf on everything because that only irritates people, in the four pages this thread has reached only the same individuals have been the ones to continously protest against change without offering a single useful alternative to said things they do not find pleasing (those that did were promptly given their dose of ALRIGHT FINE [read: you]), but the rest? It all comes down to "nothing's gonna work, you guys are wrong, this forum's cool, nothing is as wrong as it seems, your tactic will fail", which is a constant badgering that at this point seems borderline trollish in nature. One thing is listening to people, the other is going in circles ad nauseum. BeeAre is an admin now and is forced to put up with that shit (even though he does it in good nature and apparently not because of obligations), but i don't feel obligated to do the same thing, thus why i helpfully pointed out that this thread is not for saying "stop the change", because it ain't fucking stopping, it's a "suggest an alternate change that pleases you more than the one we propose". As long as this honest to god idiotic "resistance" is composed of a flimsy minority, changes are not going to be stopped because at this point there is no substantial proof that said changes will be detrimental instead of helpful to the site and that's it.

Do i sound pissed? Fuck yes i'm fucking pissed, because this isn't going anywhere other than having people like sentios and you waiting for us to post so you can pick out every little ill written sentence and cynically make a reply laced with as much sarcasm as possible. Do excuse me for being such an awful representative of this movement, i've been trying my best not to let you guys get to me but i failed, catastrophically, so more power to you i guess.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Marquis de Soth » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:53 pm

Alrighty folks, that's enough of that. If you want to have a little spat, feel free to use PMs for that. Let's keep this thread for the actual discussion.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby NeoWarrior7 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:54 pm

I mean, I can't understand your position either ya damned tyrants.
If you want it so badly why not make your own bloody forum? Be better than this place anyways, I'm sure. Less bleedman.

That aside, it is rather asshole-ish of you to ask our opinion then shoot down everything we say because it doesn't agree with you're desires for change.

My current alternative I want to put forth is my old one, namely, what if I want to comment in the Gold member forum but I can't because I'm not a gold member? How are us peasants supposed to be heard when we're shut from the castle gates?
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Mir@k » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:07 pm

NeoWarrior7 wrote:That aside, it is rather asshole-ish of you to ask our opinion then shoot down everything we say because it doesn't agree with you're desires for change.
Only i did that, not beeare, not warbear, not anyone, why not adress me?    oh right, because as i noted in my previous post, you guys are just waiting for that one ill written sentence to jump at ALL OF OUR necks*COUGCOUGHHACK*    BeeAre's in charge of letting you kknow why change is good, but since it apparently doesn't help you understand and it does nothing to make you feel at ease, then there is not much that can be done about it can it?
NeoWarrior7 wrote:My current alternative I want to put forth is my old one, namely, what if I want to comment in the Gold member forum but I can't because I'm not a gold member? How are us peasants supposed to be heard when we're shut from the castle gates?
Like this, see, this is going ad nauseum. Beeare Warbear and pretty much everyone replied to this concern way before this thread was made, and even on this thread, somewhere, lies a reply to this. Bringing up the same god damn questions again and again is not solving doubts or having an opinion, it's being obnoxious. But okay, in case you forgot, BeeAre and others already mentioned that the stupid gold forum isn't even going to exist for normal members soon, because it existence will not be necessary once the changes are refined and implemented, you won't even know it exists! Isn't that great? The "gold" forum at the moment is nothing more than an empty space that is meant to serve a higher, more serious purpose than the one it has right now, the whole "suggestion dump" thing is a thing of the present, but it'll cease to be once BeeAre knows what exactly to do with it. If you're suffering SO MUCH from not being able to post in it, feel free to submit an application for this kind of thing? You haven't tried it before, or is your post an ironic take on "even if you give me a gold name right now, i'll merely change my question from "what if i want" to "what if others want"?

I *really* don't want to get yelled at by Soth, so i'll drop it here because i realize that nothing will ever please you, or sentios, or anybody that complains endlessly about how every effort from our part is shit and how we are shit and shitshitshit everything is so shit. I already said what you all *need* to know, in words that could have been said with the tact of egyptian silk by other, much less hot headed individuals, but that would have meant the same thing.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby NeoWarrior7 » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:28 pm

You're right, it's mostly you and BR I've have issues with. Warbear and Soth are pretty cool guys about it all. QU's eh, explains it well, but still an asshole. But I've come to expect it from him. So apologies to them.

Frankly, while it has been replied to, I still take issue with the ideas presented for a caste system on general principle, so I mostly just roll with it for the sake of reminding you I dislike it. Frankly, making it disappear is even worse, because then I have no idea what you're talking about, and that's scarier than anything. If you insist on all this the least you could do is make a list of probably changes and suspected tiers. In the time this mess has started all I've heard if "there will be improvements", which is about as reassuring as the new Resident Evil trailer.
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Re: Gold Card Club / General Changes Discussion

Postby Mir@k » Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:32 pm

NeoWarrior7 wrote:I mostly just roll with it for the sake of reminding you I dislike it.

Ah, so you're blatantly admitting you're being obnoxious on purpose then? Good to know. SEE WHAT I DID THERE? I CAN PICK SENTENCES AND TAKE THEM IN THE WORST CONTEXT IMAGINABLE TOO! :D

You sound like Dark dragon in that you guys expect changes from one day to the other, and as the other have told you guys before, i politely suggest you get a comfy chair, a good book, and sit down and chillax, because it simply won't happen that way, it simply won't. The reason why has been explained before and you can backtrack and read it yourself.
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