Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby BeeAre » Thu May 31, 2012 11:58 pm

Marquis de Soth wrote:No problem dude. I just wanted to use my presence as a warning to keep the thread from degenerating.


i respek dat, ese. i respek dat.

I saw the OP in the forums earlier, but they have the most curious habit of read and abstain. I rather enjoy it, implies some thought goes into their posts.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Biostar » Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:10 pm

@With: I'm trying, but this doesn't look like its going to go anywhere.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Littlisk » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:41 am

Biostar wrote:
Littlisk wrote:
Hiroko wrote: So, why are so many characters paired up for no other reason than to just create the said fan character?

I suppose its to make their origins more complex and interesting. Take Mimi for example. She could've just been the child of some random woman Him seduced/raped/stole from. Thats fairly simple.

Blossom on the other hand is already a set character, with a backstory and personality mostly everyone knows about. Which makes it such a shock that the most moral of the Powerpuff Girls could/would have sex with Him. Thats a story that people would want to know (people couldn't stop talking about). It also provides Mimi with an interesting backstory and explanation for her powers(?).

In a crossover story, people expect more canon characters than OCs, much less OC's who have no relation to anyone canon. But thats the point, we want to see them interacting in different ways. Having a kid is just one of them.


So what you're saying is if you want a good story you use a "random character". But to make it a GREAT story you use a set character(Blossom) to add "shock" for the audience. So we're making it the equivalent of a tabloid story? Whatever, moving on.

Reasons for:

1. More complex and/or interesting than "random character"
2. Interesting backstory for Mimi
3. Explanation of Mimi's powers

1.***More complex and/or interesting than "random character"

What you're doing is using absence of evidence as evidence of absence. The "random character" doesn't exist because the "random character" wouldn't be interesting enough, basically.

We don't even know the character and yet we stick to the claim that Blossom fits the role perfectly because she's not "random". Thats not sane thinking. ALL characters start out seemingly random. ALL characters start out seemingly flat. Its like saying "This story has its own characters? Must be garbage."

2.***Interesting backstory for Mimi

Blossom is required to make Mimi's backstory interesting how again? Would no one would interested in the development of just Him? He's only the most obscure and cruel villain in the show's entire history.

3.***Explanation for Mimi's powers

Having Blossom as a mother explains absolutely nothing about Mimi. What powers does Mimi have that can't be explained by Him? Have you seen her flying, shooting lasers, or freezing things with her breathe? Please direct me to the pages.

-

About Blossom x Him...

Here you have two characters that got into a relationship ending with sex and then a child. Yet they remain exactly the same. The courting changed nothing. The relationship changed nothing. Child birth changed nothing. And lastly, Mimi changed nothing. They're EXACTLY the same. It's as if it never happened. (I'm more focused on Blossom here.) The only proof these two were together is that Mimi exists. Take her out, and say those two were together and then no one could picture it.

YOU CAN'T BE THE SAME PERSON AFTER WILLINGLY HAVING A CHILD WITH YOUR MORTAL ENEMY.

Its not possible to keep your CANON Blossom and CANON Him and still get to keep their FANON child. How inhuman, unrelatable, and unbelievable is to fuck something so sinister it can't say its own name? And then still be able to put on the same stupid face and act every bit as self righteous as if she hadn't? Blossom isn't even ruffed up, not a single hair out of place. How can she stand the sight of him? She's like some fucking lifeless doll and it freaks me the fuck out.

Blossom, Bubbles and Buttercup all saw what he would do to Earth without them to protect it. AND YET. She isn't corrupted? Twisted? Changed? No, not at all. She could fuck the ultimate embodiment of evil and feel nothing afterwards. Absolutely indifferent. Did everyone just not care she did? How realistic is that?

There's no aftermath, no dust that needs to settle, nothing. Apparently Blossom's morel's were bent far enough for her to fuck Him but not enough for her character to break canon? How does that make any sense?

TL:DR

Being a set character doesn't always mean the ideal character. There is nothing that makes a "random character" 's story immediately weaker than a set character. Every character you meet is seemingly random and seemingly flat to begin with.

If your explanation is:

"Random character" does not exist because said "random character" wouldn't be as interesting as a set character."

Then tell me how could you possibly know? How could anyone know that?

TL:DR About Blossom x Him

Its not the fact that they get together thats unreal, its the fact that they haven't changed at all. It's like they never got together but Mimi was still born anyway.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Mathias » Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:05 pm

Goddamn, just enjoy the story. If you're going to criticize and over-analyze it, then don't read it.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Biostar » Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:31 pm

Littlisk wrote: So what you're saying is if you want a good story you use a "random character". But to make it a GREAT story you use a set character(Blossom) to add "shock" for the audience. So we're making it the equivalent of a tabloid story? Whatever, moving on.

1.***More complex and/or interesting than "random character"

What you're doing is using absence of evidence as evidence of absence. The "random character" doesn't exist because the "random character" wouldn't be interesting enough, basically.

We don't even know the character and yet we stick to the claim that Blossom fits the role perfectly because she's not "random". Thats not sane thinking. ALL characters start out seemingly random. ALL characters start out seemingly flat. Its like saying "This story has its own characters? Must be garbage."

No, I'm not saying that OC's are uninteresting. If they're developed well enough, they can be relevant. What I should have said was that canon characters are more relevant to the reader, with less effort. Being a fanfic, the reader is most likely a fan and would know these characters, and care for them. If a character was put in a situation, without ample introduction, the reader would care more if it is a canon character than an OC. It takes more work to make an OC relevant, you can't put them in a story with little development and expect people to care if they survived the next page. Thats a big critic of fanfics today. Loads of OCs with little development.

The writers obviously chose her for a reason. If at the end of the story, Him choosing Blossom has no reason (even the simple fact that shes the leader of his most hated enemies) then you would have a point.

2.***Interesting backstory for Mimi

Blossom is required to make Mimi's backstory interesting how again? Would no one would interested in the development of just Him? He's only the most obscure and cruel villain in the show's entire history.

I didn't say it wouldn't be interesting, I said that it would be more complex without having to justify a character's importance. Being the daughter of Him is interesting, being the daughter of Him and Blossom is more interesting. Thats obvious.

3.***Explanation for Mimi's powers

Having Blossom as a mother explains absolutely nothing about Mimi. What powers does Mimi have that can't be explained by Him? Have you seen her flying, shooting lasers, or freezing things with her breathe? Please direct me to the pages.

Mimi has been hinted at having more powers than we've seen (can't exactly remember where). If the writers gave her a power unrelated with Him, then they can connect it with Blossom. Blossom could have developed more powers through the years.

About Blossom x Him...

Here you have two characters that got into a relationship ending with sex and then a child. Yet they remain exactly the same. The courting changed nothing. The relationship changed nothing. Child birth changed nothing. And lastly, Mimi changed nothing. They're EXACTLY the same. It's as if it never happened. (I'm more focused on Blossom here.) The only proof these two were together is that Mimi exists. Take her out, and say those two were together and then no one could picture it.

YOU CAN'T BE THE SAME PERSON AFTER WILLINGLY HAVING A CHILD WITH YOUR MORTAL ENEMY.

Its not possible to keep your CANON Blossom and CANON Him and still get to keep their FANON child. How inhuman, unrelatable, and unbelievable is to fuck something so sinister it can't say its own name? And then still be able to put on the same stupid face and act every bit as self righteous as if she hadn't? Blossom isn't even ruffed up, not a single hair out of place. How can she stand the sight of him? She's like some fucking lifeless doll and it freaks me the fuck out.

Blossom, Bubbles and Buttercup all saw what he would do to Earth without them to protect it. AND YET. She isn't corrupted? Twisted? Changed? No, not at all. She could fuck the ultimate embodiment of evil and feel nothing afterwards. Absolutely indifferent. Did everyone just not care she did? How realistic is that?

There's no aftermath, no dust that needs to settle, nothing. Apparently Blossom's morel's were bent far enough for her to fuck Him but not enough for her character to break canon? How does that make any sense?

True, alot of changes would have to have happened after that. But we've haven't exactly seen Blossom enough to actually assume that she's normal, indifferent to their past copulation. She swooped in, saved Mimi, watched two heroes sacrifice themselves, and then got seized by Him. She barely spoke, let alone interacted with Him. Maybe this is intentional, saving the backstory if we go farther into Mimi's past. We don't have evidence that shes the same as she was when she was a child (which is the only time we've seen her). We're also assuming Blossom stayed stagnant this whole time. That she hasn't had some development after whatever happened. She could have come to terms about it and become determined to protect her daughter despite who her father is. Hell, we don't even know if it was a normal birth. It could've happened Virgin Mary style. Then again the writers might not want to focus on that, but more on the reason why Blossom had Mimi. Blossom isn't the focus of the story (so far).

As for Him, I don't see why he would be much different. Unless he had actually fallen in love with Blossom (which I doubt highly), he did this for evil intentions. And that's how he's acted so far, evil. Comparing him to what we've seen of him before, he's even more evil.

Being a set character doesn't always mean the ideal character. There is nothing that makes a "random character" 's story immediately weaker than a set character. Every character you meet is seemingly random and seemingly flat to begin with.

No one is saying thats its ideal, but its more convenient than having to construct a character interesting enough in the long run. We're asking why people do it, right? Not why its better than any original character. The official stories make the canon characters interesting to the reader before they even read the fan story. Their like of an official character is subjective. The problem after that is if the author writes them out of character without any reason. An OC is flat in their eyes from the start.

Oh and another reason why people pair up canon characters (one I should have remembered because its the most prevalent one), is because of shipping. Its the author's favorite pairing, being canon or not. Some stories I've seen dwelve into it. Others start off with them already having a child.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Birdofterror » Sun Jun 03, 2012 11:24 am

Mathias wrote:Goddamn, just enjoy the story. If you're going to criticize and over-analyze it, then don't read it.
That's...

Dumb? Is that the word I'm looking for? Sorry, I don't mean to say such a thing to a Vet blatantly, but...

Really? We all have our problems, and some people actually LIKE to over-analyze things, it's better than under-analyzing. Under-analyzing is just lazy.
Littlisk wrote:Its like saying "This story has its own characters? Must be garbage."
You are being too right for your own good, stop before you get hurt.
Littlisk wrote:(Everything about Him x Blossom.)
To my knowledge Childbirth doesn't change the anatomy or the being that did it. It doesn't change their hair color, it doesn't change their skin color. Doesn't make them tall, doesn't make them short.

And to be honest no-one has ever fucked a demon to the point of having a half demon child before so the 'facts' you are spewing are baseless and are not facts. While I am not saying I am not curious if it would indeed change your body to fuck a devil, but at this point we don't know.

So speaking such certainties is speaking out of your ass.

At this point there would be no real way to tell if Blossom has even had a child at all, due to the fact of us not having a frame of reference where Blossom was an adult and NOT already a mother. So that also flies out the window. I would taunt you into saying more, but I know you will.

I'll just sit back, then.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Mathias » Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:49 pm

Nothing wrong with over-analyzing, but it is when you're criticizing something trivial.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby BeeAre » Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:48 pm

Mathias wrote:Nothing wrong with over-analyzing, but it is when you're criticizing something trivial.


strictly speaking, mathias, most things in life, if not all of them, are trivial. the thing we have to remember is that since they are all trivial, it is best not to be stuck too long on one thing--whether or not we've gone too far here remains to be seen. Your words of warning are merely the first. Warning that is, that we may be coming close.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Yog » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:42 pm

Instead of over-analyzing, it seems more like obsessing.

If it really bothers you to a point where you have to do all that you've already done, Littlisk, wouldn't it be best to let it go?
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Mir@k » Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:51 pm

Birdofterror wrote:To my knowledge Childbirth doesn't change the anatomy or the being that did it.
False, some women lose their shape and get real depressed, it's quite sad. :C
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Princess » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:05 pm

Childbirth fucks a woman's body up completely. It's never going to be what it once was after you had a child.


(Why I never want to have a child.)
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Littlisk » Tue Jun 05, 2012 8:48 pm

Biostar wrote: No one is saying thats its ideal, but its more convenient than having to construct a character interesting enough in the long run. We're asking why people do it, right? Not why its better than any original character. The official stories make the canon characters interesting to the reader before they even read the fan story. Their like of an official character is subjective. The problem after that is if the author writes them out of character without any reason. An OC is flat in their eyes from the start.

Oh and another reason why people pair up canon characters (one I should have remembered because its the most prevalent one), is because of shipping. Its the author's favorite pairing, being canon or not. Some stories I've seen dwelve into it. Others start off with them already having a child.


Well I don't know about anyone else but I think I've found my answer. The load on my mind feels a little lighter now.

But if this was done for convenience then it'll need to be made up for. Expectations are only rising now...
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby BeeAre » Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:59 am

Convenience is why people do a lot of things; in this specific instance, when dealing with the very highly saturated kids to teens art demographic, OCs are dangerous because you have to give them a background that resonates with emotional themes through which the audience can relate. By giving them "official" parents, you resolve a lot of the unrest by providing a thematic "foundation", if you will.

But I am interested in why you would say that changes your expectations. Is there a specific reason you expect it to be better because it uses a convenient story theme?
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Littlisk » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:17 am

Because it wants to keep me reading(brutal assumption eh?). When you pull out more canon content it only makes sense that its balance by fanon content.

I don't think anyone's here to watch a regurgitation of what we've already know. But at the same time we're not looking for an entirely alien story(Afterbirth?).

I'm stuck like this because the original story hadn't been satisfying enough. Yet, I wasn't so disgruntled by it that I left it forever. Kind of like an old after taste you need washed out of your mouth.

Somewhere in the "first testament" there was a paradox in the message(whatever it was I can't it remember it now). And, so far, I think I've found the "second" testament" that will hopefully clarify.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby BeeAre » Sat Jun 09, 2012 3:21 am

Your writing style is still caught up in phrases that are full of contexts that only you can really interpret, unfortunately. It's very muddy writing--very interesting and full of your unique character, but hard to derive any full meaning that you may be intending. :X

The story wants to keep you reading, but the story isn't really the founding thing behind a lot of comics, because comics are a visual medium first and foremost--They are a specific blend of ideas that fit into expression as related by pictures.

The visual themes, that is to say, the art themes, those are the ones that most comics will use to express their ideas first and foremost. Comics can end up being a playground for artists looking to put their creative energy into in order to have a consistent mode of delivering their work to their audience; the trap of such a playground is that artists will often get stifled, and unable to complete full logical expressions of their art ideas.

This is the reason why Bleedman has a team of writers, one on each comic. He knows that he enjoys the comics first and foremost as a reason to draw what he draws, but that once you go beyond those amazing and well-done art themes, he admittedly is not the best at wrapping up his story themes, so has said that it's useful to have some friends and co-workers helping him guide the stories along.

I agree with your ultimate point that the story is useful for KEEPING the audience, but I am not sure I understand what you mean when you say "here to watch a regurgitation of what we've [sic] already know."

And what points about the story were unsatisfying? It's not the comic on which I take charge, but I can pass along the idea as constructive criticism. It's always useful to have notes and direction. :)
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Littlisk » Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:23 pm

Can I just ask you a short question then?
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby BeeAre » Wed Jun 13, 2012 1:45 am

Littlisk wrote:Can I just ask you a short question then?


Sure. If you can go into detail in answering mine too, that would be swell. :0)
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Littlisk » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:11 pm

Should I lurk more? :l
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Birdofterror » Wed Jun 13, 2012 12:25 pm

You can never lurk enough.

I think there's an internet rule about that...

But in all seriousness I'm glad everyone calmed down and we have finally reached an understanding. Such a rare thing on the internet. :)
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby BeeAre » Wed Jun 13, 2012 6:49 pm

Even I still lurk, and even almost post things, and then decide not to if it's not relevant. It's just a matter of learning how to feed your curiosity in a way that best contributes to the social interaction.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby GrimlyLoveGunner » Fri Jun 22, 2012 3:07 pm

Things look like they're calm now, but I've seen

She could fuck the ultimate embodiment of evil and feel nothing afterwards.


Listed so much, I have to say something that I had naturally assumed from the start of the learning 'Mimi ish teh child of Blossom & Hem 8D'

I haven't read all these posts. (Some of the text walls scare me) But I had always assumed Him RAPED Blossom.

After that, well. We know Blossoms got willpower. She's the smart one. And would love her child, not holding it accountable for the evilness that provided the swimmers.

Just saying. This is what I had assumed from the start.

(As for: 'Sex is the only way to make a character' offspring of canon characters is kindof the entire foundation of Grim Tales. For other things- if it's a spin-off of something- You can only EXPECT someone to be the child of a canon pair. You're likely to like someone more if they're the offspring of your favorite character/couple. And like said before- it provides a easy foundation to get more to plot matters.)

But I just wanted to point that out. I finally joined today so I could say this. It seemed like no one else was entertaining that idea. :eek: The Bleedman Wiki even tries to suggest Blossom and Him were married at some point.

Or did I miss something somewhere?
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Mir@k » Fri Jun 22, 2012 6:58 pm

GrimlyLoveGunner wrote:I haven't read all these posts. (Some of the text walls scare me)
GrimlyLoveGunner wrote:Or did I miss something somewhere?


I don't know if it's just me, but i don't think you can ask that question after stating you did not read the available information on the thread.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby GrimlyLoveGunner » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:24 pm

Soooooo..... I did miss something? :?

Just pointing out no one seems to entertain that idea.
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Valhallen » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:15 pm

*charges wall of text*
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Re: Why is sex the only way to make a new character?

Postby Yog » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:21 am

This is a bit of a strange suggestion, but maybe there was a point where Him lost his evil qualities?

Hell, Mimi was separated from her evil side, maybe Him can be, too.

Entertain the possibility that Blossum can be controlled in some way, also.

Just some ideas.
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