The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Perrito Caliente » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:29 am

I mean Korra. Was Korra planned to be two season?
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Rival » Thu Aug 18, 2011 10:30 am

Perrito Caliente wrote:I mean Korra. Was Korra planned to be two season?

No.

Plan was 1 season(12 episodes), then it got expanded to 2(26 episodes).
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Perrito Caliente » Thu Aug 18, 2011 11:27 am

That reminds me. I once heard a theory that Korra would be a Batman-Esq non linear kind of story. Just a city, a hero, and a villan to fight each episode. It would sorta be a series you didn't have to watch every episode to get. Like Batman Beyond or Batman TAS.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby BeeAre » Thu Aug 18, 2011 6:51 pm

i gotta say rival, your comment on the "don't write them like californian teenagers in the 21st century" strikes me as particularly disjointed from the show's intent.

their speaking like modern kids is one of the major exploited themes for the marketability of the universe and the show as a whole.

I honestly think that if the dialogue were as highbrow as you seem to be implying would be better, the show would have been less successful, because kids today don't empathize with archaic propriety.

sure, i suppose that ultimately magic kung fu would stick, but then nickelodeon likely wouldn't have been the show to air it. the channel runs family entertainment; the show is considered a family show, a cartoon for kids and adults, but the stipulation that kids have a specific stake in the demographics means there must necessarily be some form of pandering to that audience. Notably, this means the pandering has to be done in a way that's obvious to the people who produce the show and watch it take up that valuable airtime.

i loved the beach because the self-centered fire nation crew had such "first-world" complaints about the nature of family, and because they were the bad guys, they were offering both sympathy AND indictment. These kids have the potential to do good, but they still do bad things. I really felt it just an extension of Zuko's recurring theme of condemning/redeeming the self.

And let's not kid anyone: Zuko is without a doubt the single most developed character on that show. Aang is the only one who comes close. Iroh, Katara, Azula, Sokka, they get some time, but Zuko's role in the story is almost, almost! more important than Aang and the defeat of Ozai.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Perrito Caliente » Thu Aug 18, 2011 7:19 pm

BeeAre wrote:And let's not kid anyone: Zuko is without a doubt the single most developed character on that show. Aang is the only one who comes close. Iroh, Katara, Azula, Sokka, they get some time, but Zuko's role in the story is almost, almost! more important than Aang and the defeat of Ozai.


YES! That's what I've always said. Zuko nearly outshines Aang when it comes to the plot. Very developed character indeed.

And I applaud you on your analysis of the shows demographic. I honestly still can't belie its target audience is ages 6-11.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Rival » Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:43 am

BeeAre wrote:i gotta say rival, your comment on the "don't write them like californian teenagers in the 21st century" strikes me as particularly disjointed from the show's intent.

their speaking like modern kids is one of the major exploited themes for the marketability of the universe and the show as a whole.

I honestly think that if the dialogue were as highbrow as you seem to be implying would be better, the show would have been less successful, because kids today don't empathize with archaic propriety.

I guess it is disjointed from the show's intent, but ultimately I was only explaining why I didn't like the Beach episode, when voicing my personal opinions I don't feel obliged to see it all in the big business picture, since I don't work on the show. It's not like I was trying to prove the show would be more succesful commercially if they fixed my problems with that particular episode.

Also, to address your point, you know. If no show ever tried to go beyond the family friendly modern kids apppeal American cartoons are more less getting forced into culturally, they'd never get out of the, I deeply apologize for using a TvTropes term, "animation age ghetto". That's why I'm so grateful for shows like Batman TAS, Samurai Jack and more recently Adventure Time for aiming for a full blown adult appeal from the get go, while still being, at least partially, entertaining for kids.

And I know, none of them are Nick shows, but Batman TAS started as a saturday morning cartoon and Adventure Time was originally a short produced for Nick, so it's fair to mention them.

Oh and for the record, I have no problem with them talking like modern teens, none. If I had, I'd criticize all episodes. BUT what I have a problem with is when their goals and gripes start to resemble those of modern teens. I'm sorry, but a sociopathic Princess of a military empire trying to learn how to pick up boys for dates, just takes me out of the story. If it's no problem for you, that's fine, but I was voicing personal opinions.

Perrito Caliente wrote:And I applaud you on your analysis of the shows demographic. I honestly still can't belie its target audience is ages 6-11.

If anything, BeeAre was trying to prove it's not that hard to notice. And I agree with him on that.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Perrito Caliente » Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:06 pm

Perrito Caliente wrote:That reminds me. I once heard a theory that Korra would be a Batman-Esq non linear kind of story. Just a city, a hero, and a villan to fight each episode. It would sorta be a series you didn't have to watch every episode to get. Like Batman Beyond or Batman TAS.


I think Korra will be sort of a super hero show. What do you guys think of that?

PS
This blog explains some things about the lights and stuff in Republic City.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby BeeAre » Sat Aug 20, 2011 10:00 pm

i'm not disparaging your opinion, Rival, I'm just noting that your opinion is a bit of a demographical anomaly, as it were. :0)

I can definitely understand why you might find it jarring with regards to its tone being so far removed from what your expectations are for the setting. I literally just had what amounts to that opinion delivered to me on MY writing a few days ago (a personal project, not PpGD, if anyone is curious). It's tough to walk the line between high speech and high school. :X
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Perrito Caliente » Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:41 am

To be honest, its not THAT far removed from its own reality. The show is based on Asian customs and stuff but its not confined by them. And even so its not like feudal Japanese or Chinese girls didn't have guy troubles or whatever. Everyone already know a slew of American slang terms, so within the context of its own reality (and as BR mentioned the demographic issue) it actually makes perfect sense.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Rival » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:17 am

It doesn't. They live in a military empire, the line is uttered by a member of the royal family feared by her subjects, she's a sociopath. It only "makes sense" if you feel that pandering to the target audience is unavodable, like BeeAre mentioned, but it does not make sense setting and character wise.

Especially, given that previous episodes dealing with love and relationships clearly indicated the setting had a more old fashioned approach to them. Yeah those were set within the Earth Kingdom, but still.
Perrito Caliente wrote:And even so its not like feudal Japanese or Chinese girls didn't have guy troubles or whatever.

Of a complete different nature though. The cultures were patriarchal for one. For nobles almost almost all marriages were arranged and the woman keeping her virginity was of utmost importance(to not cause a scandal).

Even when the poor folk hooked up, some matchmaking service was usually employed.

But as I said, they don't need to be Asian, I just want it to make sense setting wise. The episode "The Headband" depicted a Fire Nation school and it was pretty much like late 19th century German 2nd Reich school(only with girls added), but it made perfect sense for the Fire Nation to have schools focusing on discipline, respect for authority and nationalism, so I liked it.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Perrito Caliente » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:21 pm

But no one there feared her (out of position at least), they say that in the very beginning of the episode. They were trying to be "normal" teenagers. Just because she is a princess in a military empire doesn't mean she cant... have... fun?

My point is that, Azula is rich and spoiled and so are the rest of her friends. So something you have to factor in is that they were just talking about boys. They didn't mean it in any sexual context obviously, and they were just being GIRLS doing girly things and... stuff. And it was a party so they were just being free?

I think those last to paragraphs would be better as bullet points?

I have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about anymore...
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Rival » Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:39 pm

About californian girls, clearly.

It doesn't make sense for "normal teenagers" to behave like they did within the context of the setting(living in a military empire) either.

Nor does it make sense for a character obsessed with power and in making others fear her, to try to learn how to get boys to be interested in her, by pretending to be impressed with them.

But yeah, at this point I'll be just repeating myself, so lets just end it. You don't get me.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Mon-Kitsune » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:04 pm

Rival wrote:
Perrito Caliente wrote:And even so its not like feudal Japanese or Chinese girls didn't have guy troubles or whatever.

Of a complete different nature though. The cultures were patriarchal for one. For nobles almost almost all marriages were arranged and the woman keeping her virginity was of utmost importance(to not cause a scandal).

Even when the poor folk hooked up, some matchmaking service was usually employed.

But as I said, they don't need to be Asian, I just want it to make sense setting wise. The episode "The Headband" depicted a Fire Nation school and it was pretty much like late 19th century German 2nd Reich school(only with girls added), but it made perfect sense for the Fire Nation to have schools focusing on discipline, respect for authority and nationalism, so I liked it.


That is so, but the Asian elements did make the series a lot more interesting, and the writers appear to have been suprisingly thourough in thier reasearch. I always delighted in the little touches, in the series they helped to give it versimilitude especially when they were really obscure (I loved being able to explain to people watching with me why it was important that the "detective" had Sokka buys has wings on the side, why it made sense the Fire Nation money was made up of little gold rectangles and ovals (amogst other shapes) and why it was possibly siginificant that, even after Mai went back to wearing "normal" clothes, she didn't grow her fingernails out again.) To me it's all about the trivia.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Perrito Caliente » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:49 pm

I uploaded a slow mo of the trailer on youtube
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Techh » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:03 pm

Rival wrote:About Californian girls, clearly.

It doesn't make sense for "normal teenagers" to behave like they did within the context of the setting (living in a military empire) either.

Nor does it make sense for a character obsessed with power and in making others fear her, to try to learn how to get boys to be interested in her, by pretending to be impressed with them.

But yeah, at this point I'll be just repeating myself, so let’s just end it. You don't get me.



You have to remember though, Azula was jealous of Ty-Lee. Azula wanted to be more popular than Ty-Lee, because Azula has to be the best at everything. She can't handle being second-best, she lashes out, like when (in Zuko Alone) she pushes Ty-Lee over for performing a perfect cartwheel when she could not. Seeing Ty-Lee getting so many boys threw her over the edge, and therefore to regain control she had to have at least one boy interested in her. And because she is a sociopath, she was able to manipulate Ty-Lee to help her, but only after she blew up in her face. That moment of anger was how Azula really felt, and the pity party immediately afterwards was only Azula manipulating her "friends" again.

Trying to be "normal" teenagers was not the point of the episode. It was to go into the depths of the perceived villains' psyche. It was to show the audience that Azula, Mai, Ty-Lee and Zuko were people too, instead of just the cold blooded antagonists, out there only to ruin the lives of our heroes.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Perrito Caliente » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:37 pm

As manipulation goes though, I think she legitimately cared about Ty Lee's feelings. I think she really cared about her and Mai. If she didn't, their eventual betrayal wouldn't have effected her as much as it did.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Techh » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:15 pm

She's a sociopath and a narcissist, she can't care. It is physically impossible for her to have legitimate feelings for someone/something. So she wasn't hurt when they betrayed her, instead she started to freak out because she again lost control. Control is all that Azula cares about (besides herself), and when Mai and Ty-Lee betrayed her, she started to go insane because a) Mai and Ty-Lee, the people who were too afraid to stop being her "friend", finally stood up for themselves and left her, once again making her lose control of a situation she thought she had command over, and b) Zuko is still alive, and becoming a better fire bender than her, despite her multiple attempts to kill him.

Also, Mai’s comment of loving Zuko more than she feared Azula probably tortured Azula more than the initial betrayal, because Mai no longer looked up to Azula, and took away from her ego, possibly making Azula think "Is she really that powerful? Do people really fear her? Or are they just afraid of her father?" All of these events eventually broke Azula, resulting to her mental breakdown in Sozin’s Comet.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Rival » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:18 am

Techh wrote:You have to remember though, Azula was jealous of Ty-Lee. Azula wanted to be more popular than Ty-Lee, because Azula has to be the best at everything. She can't handle being second-best, she lashes out, like when (in Zuko Alone) she pushes Ty-Lee over for performing a perfect cartwheel when she could not. Seeing Ty-Lee getting so many boys threw her over the edge, and therefore to regain control she had to have at least one boy interested in her. And because she is a sociopath, she was able to manipulate Ty-Lee to help her, but only after she blew up in her face. That moment of anger was how Azula really felt, and the pity party immediately afterwards was only Azula manipulating her "friends" again.

I acknowledge this is a solid, acceptable and interesting interpretation.

I still don't like "the Beach" since if making people care about the "bad guys" was the goal, it didn't achieve that goal for me when it comes to Ty Lee and Mai. Zuko I already liked before that episode, and Azula was explored better in Boiling Rock and Sozin's Comet.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Techh » Tue Aug 23, 2011 5:00 pm

Rival wrote:I acknowledge this is a solid, acceptable and interesting interpretation.

I still don't like "the Beach" since if making people care about the "bad guys" was the goal, it didn't achieve that goal for me when it comes to Ty Lee and Mai. Zuko I already liked before that episode, and Azula was explored better in Boiling Rock and Sozin's Comet.



"The Beach" is actually one of my favorite episodes. I thought it started the exploration into Azula's psyche, it made me like Ty-Lee better, and, you know what, I've just never liked Mai. Yeah, she's badass, but her constant negativeness just annoys me like none other. That and she's not very interesting either. "Boo-hoo, she had to be perfect her whole life", well, so did everybody else who had a nobleman for a father. I honestly wish that they had made a better choice for Zuko to hook up with. I think a character like him deserves better than a one-dimensional stick with boobs.

But anyways! Now that I've shared my opinion, I must say that I enjoy your interperatation of the episode. It's so much different from the constant fangirl/fanboy fapping of "OMG THE ENTIRE SERIES IS THE BESTEST THING IN THE WORLD." It's actually nice to have an intelligent discussion where people actually disagree with you.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Rival » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:06 am

Thank you for the kind words.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Princess » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:09 pm

Techh is a BAMF.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Techh » Wed Aug 24, 2011 4:45 pm

@Rival
No problem, you deserve it.

@Stuff
Aww, shucks. You make me blush.
Thanks.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Princess » Wed Aug 24, 2011 6:03 pm

Seriously, though. I loved reading your posts. Not only because I agree 100%, but the fact that you joined in 2011 and you're not a complete moron... like most of the users who joined then.

Also: Image
Unf.

And: http://www.darkhorse.com/Books/18-604/Avatar-The-Last-Airbender-Volume-1-The-Promise-Part-1-TPB
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Morpheus » Wed Aug 24, 2011 8:38 pm

Preordering now.
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Re: The Last Airbender: The Legend of Korra

Postby Perrito Caliente » Thu Aug 25, 2011 5:23 pm

Aw stuff... what about me :'(

Anyways. I am definetley pre-ordering that book. For 8 bucks? Hellz yea.

And Techh. I hope you'll stay. To discuss on this forum when the series officially goes on-air. I feel like SNAFU has the only people I can really tolerate enough to actually talk to about Avatar n' shit.
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