Osama Bin Laden Dead

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby zepherin » Thu May 05, 2011 2:35 am

The fox news comments section have some really hate filled racist people. Kenyen is their new word for Nigger because they are too scared to say it, racists and cowards.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Wulfespinndel » Thu May 05, 2011 2:42 am

Fox News? Screw the goddamn audience from Fox News, I'd say. Fox News is a rather controversial news channel that I question rather than despise. The audience is tremendously white-washed.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby LostD » Thu May 05, 2011 2:48 am

I read Fox news for my daily dose of comedy. That and millions read it, so it's good to get their point of view. Even if it's difficult to agree with the point of view, it's wrong to say those people are worth any less for having it and they have their reasons for believing in it.

On the note of respecting Muslim burial rites, I believe they won't release any picture/video of Bin Laden's dead body either. Their trying to keep retaliation to a minimum, and posting pictures of dead people is hardly respectful. If the pictures were shown to anyone, it would be a private screening to Congress, so they can relay the message to their states.

Anyway, I was just saying that the cheering crowds were a bit over the top. I personally don't see death as worthy for grand celebration any day. Still, on the topic of Lord of the Rings, to all those who fell, "Hail the Victorious Dead."
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Kris » Thu May 05, 2011 10:35 am

Stufflikehearts wrote:His name in arabic is Usamah bin Ladin. I know everyone was freaking about Fox News spelling it "Usama", but I'm pretty sure they did it so no one read it as "Obama".


Especially after they did actually spell it "Obama."

I had something typed up yesterday, but Snafu crashed and ate it. It was something like....
I think that people with direct ties to 9/11 can have a free pass to celebrate, as long as it's not in a "We got our revenge" sort of way. I really don't think that murdering someone is justice at all. But I think people with direct ties, whose loved ones were killed by Osama's orders, have a right to feel relief and maybe even a little joy. If not for any other reason than he can't hurt people anymore.

As more and more details are revealed, however, it stinks of assassination. Osama was unarmed. What's an unarmed, 50 (or so) year old man, who was supposedly sickly (unless that was also a ruse to build his image), going to do against a highly trained Navy Seal with a gun pointed at him? Especially after he'd already been shot in the chest?

Unfortunately, since we only have the testimony of the Seal that shot him and Osama's wife (who had also been shot), as they were the only people in the room at the time, I don't know if we'll ever really know. Someone was filming from a helmet, but the odds that it was that specific Seal are, I imagine, pretty low. In which case, so are the odds that the shooting of Osama was caught on tape (or seen by the President and those watching the feed).
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby zepherin » Thu May 05, 2011 1:51 pm

It would have been more than one seal in that room. Two is One One is none is a mantra of the navy seals (originally it was a gear thing but I know a couple of people who used to be Spec ops and they us it for moving in groups too). There would have been at least 2 people in the room.
Last edited by zepherin on Thu May 05, 2011 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Mr. Froggy » Thu May 05, 2011 4:39 pm

Having direct ties to a catastrophe should not excuse you for acting like a twat; like I said before, to each his own, if people want to celebrate they should. I still don't see anything wrong with this, people don't need a reason to dislike another person to the point they scream and shout when they learn of that person's death.

As for whether or not the Navy Seal should've killed Osama, that really depends on the details, and like Kris said, we'll probably never know. I will say this, anything other than complete surrender and submission would have been too much risk. I'm not saying that Osama was a dangerous killing machine, I'm saying that any risk, however small, would have been too much. If any of the Seals in that operation had been wounded or died trying to capture Osama alive, it wouldn't have been worth it for me.

Also, WWII wasn't a battle of good vs. evil. It was soldiers vs. soldiers with some very fucked up people on the side. Every war, every conflict, it's always about Us vs. Them; I don't think that any war has been fought without knowing who you are going to kill. Even now, where the enemy has no army or flag or colors, soldiers shoot at the people who are shooting at them. Since when did it become difficult to vilify an enemy of war? Is 'trying to kill you' not good enough? Maybe the enemy soldier has to be a Hitler clone with at least five puppy tortures under his belt before we start labeling him.

I'm afraid that because Yatzee said something along the lines of 'WWII was the last war where America had a clear moral purpose' that everyone will assume we're all in the same page and they'll start making great generalizations about war and good and evil. My point, don't be lazy, explain your shit to the best of your abilities, no matter how many people will agree with what you are about to say anyways.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby EagleMan » Sat May 07, 2011 12:45 am

Fair enough, but it would've seemed like too big a digression.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Sentios » Thu May 12, 2011 9:53 pm

Mr. Froggy wrote:Having direct ties to a catastrophe should not excuse you for acting like a twat; like I said before, to each his own, if people want to celebrate they should. I still don't see anything wrong with this, people don't need a reason to dislike another person to the point they scream and shout when they learn of that person's death.


People who celebrate the death of others are barbarians as far as I am concerned.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Mr. Froggy » Fri May 13, 2011 6:07 pm

Sentios wrote:People who celebrate the death of others are barbarians as far as I am concerned.


Cool. I mean, it sucks that people will cherish the death of another human being, a set of values like that speaks very poorly of them. I wouldn't associate with people that celebrate death, but I wouldn't speak badly of them either.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Monkeys85 » Sat May 14, 2011 4:02 am

I don't know, I'm sure most of the people just took it as an excuse to go out and party on a Sunday night. I know most people in my University did(including myself). But besides that, I think its not wrong to celebrate someones death, depending on the circumstances. Osama was a very evil human and deserved to be shot in the head and probably more. If anything, I'm disappointed we didn't take him alive so he could rot in jail and be raped by big black men, a bullet to the head just seems too quick a death for me.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Jay » Sat May 14, 2011 4:53 am

I think that's the sort of attitude people are precisely complaining about.

I wouldn't really mind if people were celebrating because he was "definitively no longer a threat to public peace", even if it's sort of just symbolic and doesn't really change much, I'll give people the benefit of being able to feel relieved that the man who created the era of terror can no longer continue himself, at least.

But the sort of attitude that he should be raped by black men? That's just juvenile.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Sentios » Sat May 14, 2011 7:08 am

Monkeys85 wrote:I don't know, I'm sure most of the people just took it as an excuse to go out and party on a Sunday night. I know most people in my University did(including myself). But besides that, I think its not wrong to celebrate someones death, depending on the circumstances. Osama was a very evil human and deserved to be shot in the head and probably more. If anything, I'm disappointed we didn't take him alive so he could rot in jail and be raped by big black men, a bullet to the head just seems too quick a death for me.


That Osama was as "evil" as he was is simply a failing of humanity on a whole, particularly considering he's just an icon and people just as "evil" as he was are not rare. Even if this end can be deemed as inevitable or neccessary, it still serves as another illustration that we still resort to the same tactics we condemn. Also that even today we collectively still haven't grown beyond killing people as an ultimate means to change their behavior.

With that in mind; I can not fathom how this is cause for celebration by anyone other than barbarians.

Jay wrote:the man who created the era of terror can no longer continue himself, at least.


That's giving him too much credit Jay, he could have never pulled it off without the US media being in a constant frenzied state.

I can accept relief felt by the victim's families to an extent but that's about as far into 'this is a good thing' as I will go.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Vegedus » Sat May 14, 2011 7:20 am

Jay wrote:But the sort of attitude that he should be raped by black men? That's just juvenile.

Yup. Justice isn't about bad people getting raped.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Mr. Froggy » Sat May 14, 2011 2:37 pm

I don't think killing is all that bad; it's not that don't understand the severity of killing, and for that matter dying, it's just that I don't have a bias over it. For me, the problem is in the process of figuring out who deserves to be killed. Killing is just the ultimate tool for making sure a person doesn't do whatever we don't want them to do. You can use killing for simple things such as stopping a person from hurting others in a specific moment (self-defense, defense of others, or in a battle in a war), or for complex situations like stopping a person from using his influence to incite people into committing acts of violence and terrorism.

Using killing for punishment on the other hand, that's a little more iffy. Then again, you could say that any punishment is unnecessary, if there are successful ways to change behavior without having to take anything way. That is, if behavior modification was so advanced as to successfully prevent crimes and acts of passion, then jail and probation would be as unnecessary as killing. After all, any kind of suffering is bad, any good society ought to want to prevent suffering of any kind.

Personally, I like punishment. If a person purposefully causes suffering, then they should be made to suffer. Not through torture though, that's, like you guys said, just juvenile thinking; taking away fundamental rights, like incarceration is good enough suffering for me. For the most heinous of crimes, the kind that cause the most suffering, killing is the next option. Again this is just my opinion, but some people should be removed from society, it doesn't matter if they can be potentially rehabilitated. I have my list of irredeemable crimes, it's very conservative and specific, but if you cross that line, I want you dead.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Kris » Sat May 14, 2011 3:59 pm

People should be punished, absolutely.
However, it's my opinion that no human being has the right to deny another human being life. As far as I'm concerned, the death penalty is government condoned murder. And every time someone dies on death row, the entire country has murdered that person, because we all pay the taxes that make it happen. Which is kind of sickening, to be honest.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Jay » Sat May 14, 2011 4:51 pm

Eh, I think it's pushing it if you start taking responsibility for something your government does. It's not like you can just stop paying taxes to them, certainly not very easily.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby zepherin » Sat May 14, 2011 5:00 pm

I think we use the death penalty too gingerly in some states (Texas), but there are some people who are simply too dangerous to be left alive.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Icha » Sun May 15, 2011 10:33 pm

Kris wrote:People should be punished, absolutely.
However, it's my opinion that no human being has the right to deny another human being life. As far as I'm concerned, the death penalty is government condoned murder. And every time someone dies on death row, the entire country has murdered that person, because we all pay the taxes that make it happen. Which is kind of sickening, to be honest.


Now, what do you feel about animals? They kill each other for food all the time.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby zepherin » Mon May 16, 2011 1:23 am

The less advanced a lifeform gets the more basic the behavior gets. The hole point of ethics, morality, being human as it were is to move away from purely instinctual behavior. We kill animals for food too, but we don't generally kill other humans for food. Neither do wolves kill wolves for food nor tigers killing tigers for food. That type of super basic behavior goes down to insects and less evolved than that. Suggesting that we should base our morality on less evolved lifeforms is silly.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Icha » Mon May 16, 2011 6:59 pm

Well, I was aiming more towards "If it's wrong to kill people, why is it ok to kill animals?"


Empathy, as far as I know, is based off of the ability of something to see themselves in a particular situation. I don't think any regular person could think of themselves as a cow, for example, so I don't think Kris (not singling you out) would particularly care about cows being used for food.

I just wanna hear how she justifies that, because she seems to be one of those "all life is sacred" people, eh?

Why do you think all life is sacred, anyway? (I'm only guessing, I'm sorry if I guess wrong)
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Nell-X » Sat Jun 11, 2011 1:58 pm

This was a correlation a friend put together and said to me.

PSN down after security breach: April 20, 2011

Osama Bin Laden is killed by a team put together by the president: May 2nd

PSN is restored: June 2011

"See, look at how much we can get accomplished when our troops aren't sitting around playing games"

It's true that some soldiers play console games where they're deployed. It's just weird as hell that both events happen so close together. I don't know whether I should find this funny or not.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Vegedus » Sat Jun 11, 2011 2:29 pm

That's the most coincidental thing I've heard in a while. It's a decent joke, but are you suggesting there's actually a correlation?
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Rival » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:20 pm

Hmm, I don't know if I have a right to lock this. Even though it's a necro, I'll just come off anti-American, if I do it.
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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Valhallen » Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:34 pm

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Re: Osama Bin Laden Dead

Postby Nell-X » Sat Jun 11, 2011 8:10 pm

Vegedus wrote:That's the most coincidental thing I've heard in a while. It's a decent joke, but are you suggesting there's actually a correlation?


The message was told to my friend from another person, then told to me, now shared here. I personally see it as one hell of a coincidence.

Rival wrote:Hmm, I don't know if I have a right to lock this. Even though it's a necro, I'll just come off anti-American, if I do it.


My apologies Rival, I figured since this was a recent event and only a month had passed from the last post... It won't happen again.
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