New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Biostar » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:27 am

When it comes to villains, a family who don't plot to knife each other in the back constantly is a perfect one.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby BeeAre » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:28 am

Bleedman himself thought it was cute that Bell liked Mandark. He wouldn't have drawn her crushing on him if it was simply brotherly love. How can I say this?

We clearly can see the difference between brotherly and romantic love which arises as a powerful emotionally confusing conflict between the central characters of GT. It is without a doubt the central theme in Grim Tales between Junior and Minnie.

None of that goes on in PpGD. It's not alluded to, it's not carefully hinted at subtly, it's not made even a trail to follow like the introduction of Olga just before the Forgotten (and the long Hiatus) began.

Birdot, to put it simply: I am sorry, but you are categorically wrong. Democratically, dictatorially, and divinely. The people here, my notation to follow, and Bleedman's original intent as story "Word of God".

Stop playing devil's advocate, if that's what you're doing, or if that is not what you are doing actually look at the facts of the comic when any set of conditions involving Bell, Mandark, and Bell's knowledge is concerned.

If you find a hole in my subsequent explanation through what is IN the story, I'll be grateful to you for finding it, so I can correct it to match the idea with what I've talked about with Bleedman on the idea. I was brought on to fix mistakes. If you can find a mistake that EXISTS, rather than a conspiracy you're suggesting would be the most fun to speculate on, I will appreciate it. I don't want you to bring up speculations that drastic because that led to Bleedman becoming aware of the Blossom Aku thing and thus this new Chi arc in GT. Don't make me MORE irritated, please.

Bell crushed on Mandark romantically. He was not a big brother to her. Dr. X may have considered him like a son, but only because of their shared interests; not because of his tragedy. He made it a point to be aware of his tragedy-coping-strategy, and only when Bell was asleep - in entirely too much detail with regards to the comic structure, in my humble opinion, given that this was before I was brought on board to handle the writing - did he explain the consequences of that tragedy-strategy to Zim.

This is what Bleedman put in the story, it is what I've questioned him about, the answers are as I am explaining them to you and so by that notion, I am running the canon thusly.

In fact: the difference between Bunny and Dexter having lost siblings, people they considered family and Bell having lost what she considered a love interest or some kind of romantic surrogate at least is going to be a point in the plot, later.

Does this little explanation bring your frankly disparate conclusion to some kind satisfaction?
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Hallow Nova » Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:06 am

Everyone should watch BR's avatar .gif after reading his post. xD
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby The Mad Doctor » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:31 am

Still, I wonder about how Bell doesn't seem to realize Mandark was mad with grief.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Birdofterror » Fri Jun 07, 2013 8:37 am

BeeAre wrote:Does this little explanation bring your frankly disparate conclusion to some kind satisfaction?
Not really, but I knew it was going to come to this anyway.

I'm just tired of every character being a romantic interest. Why does everyone have to be in love with everyone? Does it make the plot stronger? Shit, GT pulled the stops out with incest and GAY incest.

Because characters can only be judged by the worth of the characters under their belts apparently.
BeeAre wrote:If you can find a mistake that EXISTS, rather than a conspiracy you're suggesting would be the most fun to speculate on, I will appreciate it. I don't want you to bring up speculations that drastic because that led to Bleedman becoming aware of the Blossom Aku thing and thus this new Chi arc in GT. Don't make me MORE irritated, please.
You're not the only one who found Chi's apprentice to be lackluster for lack of a better word.

In my eyes, the very reason she even exists in the story is to be an extension of Mimi's character and to make a bridge to introduce Aku. Other characters do not a good character make.

But this wouldn't be the first, second, or tenth thing Bleedman has done that I found irksome... just now it's made moreso that you are doing it with him.

Okay, let me concede to the fact that sure, Bell might have been infatuated with Mandark- cool. But he died after being in Black Eden for... what... a month? A year? 2 years? It couldn't have been too much earlier than that, or Bell would have been much younger.

How long has it been since his death in the story? I ask, because topped with that, the low time he spent with her, his abrupt death, the length in which he has been dead, the details she doesn't know about and the fact that she is actually wrong in attacking Blossom- as she was actually Mandark's victim, not killer-

I must ask, why is she even being aggressive towards her? If she knew Blossom was involved, she "should" know that her involvement was minor at best. Does she not know that Mandark drowned her? Does she not know that she was dead for half that battle and the other half she was incapacitated? Does she not know that it was mostly Dexter's doing that led Mandark to his death? Does she not know that Mandark actually blew up his lab? Has she never been to the ruins before?

How is it possible that she knows nothing about any of this, but knows enough incorrect information to make a decision on whether or not to take her revenge on "Blossom" of all people? It makes no sense. Can you put the pieces together for me so I can understand? You can call me stupid if you want, too.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby BeeAre » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:08 am

Bleedman decided that it was a romantic interest before I got here, and yes, he does it a lot.

I, however, did not just do what you are insisting I did, because you aren't paying attention to what's happening, practically at all.

So! I will call you stupid for not reading what Bell said.

To make sure it penetrates that solid titanium noggin of yours, I will paraphrase in simple language:

~~Bell's~~ ~~Internal~~ ~~Monologue~~ wrote:You made me think you were going to kill Gir, the only thing in the world I can love on a daily basis. I'm going to kill you now, not really because you made me sad that way. That's not very important, because he isn't dead. Killing you is just a perk right now - Oh! Hey! Wait!

Killing you? That will make your family will feel equally bad if not worse than I have felt. Killing you specifically doesn't really matter to me, but it sure is convenient that you are right here and injured!

It could be anyone that has been my enemy a whole lot. You fit that description pretty well, having just scared me into thinking you were going to kill my little robot pet. This is great! You'll die not just for that, but also if I kill you I'll know that others who loved you and are still alive will suffer as much if not more than I have! This completely justifies my actions in killing you! Awesome!


She's a villain. The timetables are completely irrelevant to someone as emotionally unstable as Bell. It's like you're not even trying, Birdot. :\

But hey, I'll be fair here. First, a question for you: Tell me right now, bud, what is the logical thing Bell should be doing in the middle of her homicidal rage?

Second: Anyone else want to weigh in? Who else thinks that Bell doing something completely emotionally driven in the midst of her sheer killing anger is completely out of place?

I'm serious. Give me a long list of things that makes it weird for Bell to want to kill Blossom and thus make the story a lot worse for it. I will, on my honor, go to Bleedman and tell him we have to redo the page if you can convince me. With nice solid arguments that are clearly based in what has been shown, not in what has not been shown, nor even implied to have happened offscreen.

Or you could wait until the next page comes out and see what happens and stop analyzing the behavior of a character who is not being logical in the slightest due to her emotional instability over her panic and anger.

I believe we've done this sort of thing before, Birdot, and I am not in the mood for it, having come out of a day long cramp. My apologies if I seem a little brash.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby The Mad Doctor » Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:18 am

I like how this reestablishes Bell as an antagonist, and a more serious character than what was shown over time.

Birdofterror wrote:
BeeAre wrote:Does this little explanation bring your frankly disparate conclusion to some kind satisfaction?
Not really, but I knew it was going to come to this anyway.

I'm just tired of every character being a romantic interest. Why does everyone have to be in love with everyone? Does it make the plot stronger? Shit, GT pulled the stops out with incest and GAY incest.

I am particalulary annoyed by this too. Particullary in fanfictions. Which is the gold mine of it. I eventually get tired of somebody going "OMG THEY ARE SOO CUTE" when it was never really intended, or just simply not important in the plot of the story, despite hinting it. When there are unusual or biologically unsafe couples, thats when I really get pissed off thinking "Why is this important!". With the exception of GT, with Junior and Minnie. But thats because that is actually what the story focuses on.

I find the rest of the argument, as fruitless as trying to argue with an creationist. However the person we are trying to argue with can decide for himself wether he is right or wrong. Which is the worst kind of arguement.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Hallow Nova » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:02 am

They're kids, love is something that happens in life. Bell doesn't seem to have any interaction with any boys, besides ALIENS. So she falls for the 1st guy that spends time with her, what's so hard to accept about that? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any other boy that spent time with her.

BeeAre wrote:She's a villain. The timetables are completely irrelevant to someone as emotionally unstable as Bell.

@Birdofterror Just wanted to point out that Bell being mad at Blossom seems logical to me. Bell knows Blossom was involved, not knowing the level of involvement, she has a natural child reaction; She puts more blame than deserved on Blossom because she doesn't know how much she should put. All she knew was that Blossom was kidnapped. She could be thinking "If only she wasn't there/here", "Did she break free and attack him?" and/or "Why didn't I stay with him". She's dealing with emotions that are hard to deal with on top of (thinking) almost losing what seems to be the only thing she holds dear(Gir). Bell being mad and irrational in this moment makes perfect sense. SHE'S A CHILD!
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Birdofterror » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:05 pm

BeeAre wrote:But hey, I'll be fair here. First, a question for you: Tell me right now, bud, what is the logical thing Bell should be doing in the middle of her homicidal rage?
But that's the thing. If she was just going insane, wanting to massacre the individual in front of her, that would be fine and dandy. I like a good old fashioned Psycho sociopath.

But you gave her the internal monologue and the external reasons. Now she's explaining her rage as revenge for Mandark. If she was just completely insane, this would be an epic part with no nits to pick- but you gave her an impossible reason. If in any way she would realize that Blossom was involved, she would know she did 'nothing.'

And packing on top of Blossom doing nothing and how you said she doesn't care so much for Blossom, but her family- let me just say:

So she is going to take revenge on someone who hasn't wronged her and make her family suffer even though they didn't make her suffer. I mean- sure, Buttercup's intervention was more than the other two's, but it was still minor. She broke exactly 1 machine in Mandark's lab.
BeeAre wrote:Second: Anyone else want to weigh in? Who else thinks that Bell doing something completely emotionally driven in the midst of her sheer killing anger is completely out of place?
But that's the thing, it doesn't seem like she's being driven by emotion. I mean, sure- Bleedman put good artistic vision into making her LOOK like she's going completely insane, but her actions don't match her words.

She LOOKS completely insane and driven by bloodlust, but she's talking like she's a pissed off Sherlock Holmes with the dark forethought of an evil Batman.

I mean- even this:
BeeAre wrote:She's a villain. The timetables are completely irrelevant to someone as emotionally unstable as Bell.
Didn't you yourself already say that she's actually VERY stable? We talked about this when discussing whether or not Bubbles was insane? You said that Bell is more stable than Buttercup and Blossom, but not Bubbles.

I mean come on. 'You' said it. Am I missing so many things that seem obvious to everyone else? Am I THAT stupid? Because nothing is making sense to me, especially when it comes to factual consistence.

I am sorry for continuing this through your bad mood, but come on. If she is so mentally stable, she shouldn't be so unstable... which she isn't being because she is acting through emotion, guided by the incorrect knowledge that Blossom and her entire family was in any major way involved in Mandark's Suicude which she apparently doesn't realize but she does realize enough to incorrectly give her own rage a piss-poor justification.
Last edited by Birdofterror on Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Blood Lord » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:16 pm

IMHO, I read this as Bell going crazy for what nearly happened to Gir and for the trauma that Blossom put her through. The Mandark reference to me doesn't compute with this situation, EXCEPT that Bell is using it to classify the type of pain she wants Blossom's family to feel. She isn't claiming that this is for Mandark, or possibly damning Blossom for doing it, but is saying "I've felt this intense pain where I lost someone I cared about, you almost made me repeat that. Now, I'm going to give your family a taste of that pain by killing you for endangering the last thing on this Earth that I care about."
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Birdofterror » Fri Jun 07, 2013 1:22 pm

Blood Lord wrote:IMHO, I read this as Bell going crazy for what nearly happened to Gir and for the trauma that Blossom put her too. The Mandark reference to me doesn't compute with this situation, EXCEPT that Bell is using it to classify the type of pain she wants Blossom's family to feel. She isn't claiming that this is for Mandark, or possibly damning Blossom for doing it, but is saying "I've felt this intense pain where I lost someone I cared about, you almost made me repeat that. Now, I'm going to give your family a taste of that pain by killing you for endangering the last thing on this Earth that I care about."
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

That makes so much more sense then how I was thinking it. Huh...

I was caught in this perpetual loop where she was blaming Blossom for Mandark's suicide, but I guess I was reading it all wrong.

Man, I am really bad at interpreting BR's work. I will admit that much with a smile.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Hallow Nova » Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:03 pm

The mentioning of Susan could also be a connection to how she felt when Blossom pretended to aim for Gir.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby BeeAre » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:18 pm

Birdofterror wrote:
Blood Lord wrote:IMHO, I read this as Bell going crazy for what nearly happened to Gir and for the trauma that Blossom put her too. The Mandark reference to me doesn't compute with this situation, EXCEPT that Bell is using it to classify the type of pain she wants Blossom's family to feel. She isn't claiming that this is for Mandark, or possibly damning Blossom for doing it, but is saying "I've felt this intense pain where I lost someone I cared about, you almost made me repeat that. Now, I'm going to give your family a taste of that pain by killing you for endangering the last thing on this Earth that I care about."


That makes so much more sense then how I was thinking it. Huh...

I was caught in this perpetual loop where she was blaming Blossom for Mandark's suicide, but I guess I was reading it all wrong.

Man, I am really bad at interpreting BR's work. I will admit that much with a smile.


I have had a bad set of days medically, so I apologize right now for being so frustrated, but dude, you were on the cusp of getting me angry in not trying to reinterpret the things I was saying, especially when I was saying the same thing multiple times.

But look: you saw my post wherein I made a hypothetical inner monologue.

IN THAT MONOLOGUE I SPECIFICALLY SAID: " Killing you specifically doesn't really matter to me, but it sure is convenient that you are right here and injured! "

That means "It doesn't have to be you, Blossom."

Bell is more emotionally stable than Blossom or Buttercup under normal circumstances. This circumstance is where she is about to lose something she loves is not normal. Compare Bubbles losing something she loves to Bell.

Thank you, Blood Lord, for somehow getting your former archnemesis to realize something I literally said several times. Man, I don't like getting angry. It hurts me physically. Sorry for being a dick, Birdot, but man, keep my health in mind in the future when you argue things with me: be better with your evidence and calmer in your rhetoric. Saying shit like, "I am sorry for continuing this through your bad mood, but come on," does not keep me feeling sane. >:\ Sorry again for being upset, but ugh. ugh. bad days.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Blood Lord » Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:23 pm

No problem BR.

And people seem to think I put this stuff in my signature to look cool. Bah.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Rival » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:17 am

Birdofterror wrote:Man, I am really bad at interpreting BR's work. I will admit that much with a smile.

Stanisław Lem wrote:I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby The Mad Doctor » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:21 am

Blood Lord wrote:No problem BR.

And people seem to think I put this stuff in my signature to look cool. Bah.

You probably are gonna put that in your signature.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Blood Lord » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:56 pm

No. It doesn't describe a trait of me. Anyways~

I can see how Blossom and Buttercup are together now when Dexter looked at the explosion, but I'm curious to how Bell got out first.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Birdofterror » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:37 pm

Blood Lord wrote:I can see how Blossom and Buttercup are together now when Dexter looked at the explosion, but I'm curious to how Bell got out first.
Eh? I wasn't under the impression that any of them were getting out alive/unaffected.

Considering the rate at which the explosion consumes the whole planet then the outer atmosphere and possibly even the moon, even if they do get out it's almost completely pointless, right?
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Blood Lord » Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:50 pm

Well, we know that the bomb has something to do with time, just not how or what yet. I believe the reaction we saw was everyone freaking out over the assumptions that they were about to die. I don't think they are, unless we are going to have a mass party in Heaven or wherever like they do in Dragon Ball. That'd be like Dr X nuking his own base.

Everyone is being affected by this though. Bell makes it out of the reactor area first though and is advancing the furthest out.

http://ppg.snafu-comics.com/index.php?comic_id=264
I was basing that off of this page, we see that Bell is the closet one, either indicating a stronger power level, or that she is ahead of the other two. Blossom and buttercup weren't as close as I had first thought.

What I am thinking is that they are flying out of the room. but it can also be zoomed in enough to see in the room. In that case it would have been easy for Buttercup to block the shot, toss Bell over her to the other side or Bell gets there herself, and Sam sneaks up and activates the bomb. Sam though somehow still dies.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Birdofterror » Sat Jun 08, 2013 8:57 pm

Blood Lord wrote:Sam though somehow still dies.
This is what everyone seems to be going with, but it could be several other things as well, ending with what everyone is thinking.

---

1: She got the fuck out while the getting was good.

2: She doesn't generate the same energy as the Powerpuffs (Bell is a Powerpuff) possibly due to the lack of Chemical X. For example, you cannot detect Gir either... although I know he isn't strong. Just an example.

3: She is out of range of the scanner, either too close to the energy to be detected, or too far away to be on the screen.

4: She's dead.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Hallow Nova » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:08 pm

Thought Sam's death was confirmed to happen.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Havoc » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:19 pm

Me too. I think BR has said it on multiple occasions.

I came up with my own theory awhile ago, based on what BR said. If the bomb transports people to different location and/or time periods like that one theory someone came up with, maybe Sam will be transported to a different place, then be killed there.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby The Mad Doctor » Sat Jun 08, 2013 9:27 pm

Then again, BeeAre could be fucking with us, just to throw off our predictions. Something as pivotal as Sam's death is something the writer shouldn't really let out. No one told me spoilers might happen here.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Blood Lord » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:08 pm

Birdofterror wrote:2: She doesn't generate the same energy as the Powerpuffs (Bell is a Powerpuff) possibly due to the lack of Chemical X. For example, you cannot detect Gir either... although I know he isn't strong. Just an example.

Sam was detected on the way down.
http://ppg.snafu-comics.com/index.php?comic_id=253

TheMadDoctor wrote:Then again, BeeAre could be fucking with us, just to throw off our predictions.

He doesn't roll like that. He likes his work, proud of it. If he shares the same sort of pride that I have with my work, you don't want to distract people with lies and deceive motives. Instead, you want to show off your work, let people mule over it and ponder its greatness to figure out its secrets first. This is just a guess though.

TheMadDoctor wrote: Something as pivotal as Sam's death is something the writer shouldn't really let out. No one told me spoilers might happen here.

Ohh, its not just Sam that will be dying.
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Re: New PpGD: Face-Heel Turn (June 3rd 2013)

Postby Biostar » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:25 pm

Sam hasn't felt that pivotal to the overall plot for her death to be that big of a deal anyway.
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