The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Dibullba » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:34 am

It is more likely that humans gained the ability from the lion turtles, but with genetics through time it has to be awakened. Specific spirits will already have these abilities whether it was given to them by the lion turtles, or merely that they are an extension of them. As the episode back in TLA with Zuko and Aang learning true firebending, the spirit animals essentially grant benders with the full capability of an element by sharing ancient knowledge.   So I have to say that I loved these two episodes in how they take what is known from the original series and merely through visuals explains how the Avatar and world of benders came to be. It makes me wonder if more can be taken from what has been seen such as the possibility that the lion turtles along with Raava (light) and Vaatu (dark) are the closest things to gods as they potentially could have created the world as it was and is now known. Since Raava is forever bound to a human, it makes me wonder if Unalaq is aware of the origin story and thus plans to become a second avatar. I am just so giddy at the thought of what a final battle would be like if it was Avatar vs. Dark Avatar.   
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby PeachyKeane » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:35 am

Grieffon wrote:These two episodes may have a negative impact on how people view Korra. It's not good if the potentially most memorable episode in a season barely has the main character in it. Also, it's hard to create a battle more epic than that. There's one way I can think of, and it can tie with Unalaq's plan.

   Unalaq want to free the dark spirit Vaatu, and make himself a "dark Avatar", the same as what Vaara and Wan did. The final battle will be between two avatars.   



I think a lot of people have already formed their (mostly negative) opinion on Korra, and are just happy to have such an EPIC 2 part episode! Only at the end they'd grudgingly go back to Korra. Although    Korra getting a sky bison was nostalgically refreshing .   

I love your Unalaq plan theory, that would be undoubtedly....well for lack of a better word, epic.

In any case, this episode, solidifies why I love the Avatar universe, and really saved Korra in my own eyes.
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Mon-Kitsune » Sat Oct 19, 2013 9:51 am

Something just ocurred to me in the episode    Lemur man said there were dozens of lion turtles. Wan visited four (incidentally you note the order Wan visited them set the order of the reincarnations; fire,air,water,earth) So that makes me wonder if there are OTHER bending powers Wan could have gotten had he visited more of them (either that or some dupicate). Maybe the "soul bending" the Lion Turtle taught Aang wasn't part of ANY of the for bending disclipines but a whole new class. Off the top of my head, I can't think of many things that aren't covered by one of the existing four (about the only things I can think of would be woodbending [which would probably be covered by either earth bending or advanced water (if they can bloodbend, they can probably sapbend) and power of control over life and death itself. But there are probably some.
Also this episode confirmed that Avatars in sprit form can appear at whatever age they choose (Wan lived to a fairly old age, and he appeard to Korra as he did before he became Avatar)   
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Dibullba » Sat Oct 19, 2013 1:51 pm

With what you said Mon, it did make me think of something that could actually be an incredibly big plot hole.    So we know that the avatar state is brought on by Raava. In TLA, Aang is told that when in the avatar state, he is at his most vulnerable. In Korra with these two origin episodes, It is revealed that Raava and Vaatu are a single being that can never really die in order to maintain balance of the world. So this actually bothers me as the avatar can seize to exist and yet they can maintain the capability to bend all four elements when supposedly Raava would be dead even though she can't die.   

Aside from that, I can actually answer your question Mon. In TLA with the episode "The Guru", Aang has to unlock seven chakras to have complete control over the avatar state. These chakras are: Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sound, Light, and Thought. Two potential chakras that could be added, though never stated, would be Dark (or Chaos) and Spirit. So that comes much closer to the dozen.
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Hiroko » Sat Oct 19, 2013 5:09 pm

Grieffon wrote:Also, the last episode put many holes in the origin of bending previously established by TLA.

In TLA, humans learned bending from the moon, sky bisons, dragons, and badgermoles. However, it was shown the bending was given to them by lion turtles. Wan did learn proper firebending from studying the motion of dragons, but I don't see how that is applied to sky bisons. Also, how did those animal get the ability to bend, did the lion turtle just choose random species to give elemental powers to, and decide to give to every member of those species?


I think what they meant was that the moon, sky bison, dragons, and badgermoles were the original masters of those elements, whereas the Lion Turtle simply granted the ability to bend those elements to humans. Humans gained bending powers from the Lion Turtle but learned how to use/master them from studying the moon, sky bison, dragons, and badgermoles.
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Mon-Kitsune » Sat Oct 19, 2013 6:27 pm

Dibullba wrote:With what you said Mon, it did make me think of something that could actually be an incredibly big plot hole.    So we know that the avatar state is brought on by Raava. In TLA, Aang is told that when in the avatar state, he is at his most vulnerable. In Korra with these two origin episodes, It is revealed that Raava and Vaatu are a single being that can never really die in order to maintain balance of the world. So this actually bothers me as the avatar can seize to exist and yet they can maintain the capability to bend all four elements when supposedly Raava would be dead even though she can't die.   

Aside from that, I can actually answer your question Mon. In TLA with the episode "The Guru", Aang has to unlock seven chakras to have complete control over the avatar state. These chakras are: Earth, Water, Fire, Air, Sound, Light, and Thought. Two potential chakras that could be added, though never stated, would be Dark (or Chaos) and Spirit. So that comes much closer to the dozen.


   Unless part of the cost of being bound to the avatar is that Ravaa has lost that immortality. That its;ef could also become an interesting plot point, since, shoulde Vaatu bond with a person he too would presumably lose it. So if Uniloq bonded, went into the avatar state and was killed, Vaatu would be as well and Chaos would be eliminated. This would actually be a very very bad thing since tilting the balace all the way to light would be just as dangerous as tilting it all the way to dark (depending on which theory you subscribe to the results could range from absolute stasis (no chaos means no change and no free will. to the whole world being destroyed since pure light is just as unendurable as pure dark (the old Chernebog/Bylebog pairing)   
As for the others thats all well and good, except lemur man said "dozens" not "a dozen" so we are talking about at least 24 turtles, probably a lot more like around 96-144 (depending on how many of something you have to have before you stop saying "dozens" and start saying "hundreds") and if they are there, why did Wan not go to them as well. You'd think he would want as many aces in the hole as possible (unless he simply ran out of time. Still thiere might be some fun things there if there are benders of the others out there. Soundbenders sound pretty limited, but I imagine Lightbenders can probably do things like make illusions and become invisible, and Mindbenders can presumably read and control thoughts
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby MQuinny1234 » Sat Oct 19, 2013 7:16 pm

Well...Could it be that each power a spirit can use is "bending" while the bending elements are simply the ones that humans are closest to.

So, teleportation, light, dark, energy, etc.
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Slendy » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:13 am

@Mon,    why can't there be more than 1 fire Lion Turtle, or air, water, and earth? When he said there were "dozens" of other turtles, I just figured there were multiple lion turtles for each element. Obviously Wan would have no reason to visit one that granted an element he already controlled, so that's why he only visited the four.   

@Dibullba,    Raava can definitely die, she would just be reborn from Vaatu should that happen. However, this would be a new Raava, and she would no longer be the Avatar Spirit. She could always merge with a human again to start the avatar cycle fresh, but this cycle would have no connection to the previous one. All the wisdom, knowledge, and experience of the past avatars would be lost forever. This is why dying in the avatar state ends the cycle, since that is the only time Raava is also vulnerable. It does not permanently erase the avatar from existence, just hits the "reset" button. But that's assuming the new Raava would even start another avatar cycle. It's possible the new Raava would have no knowledge/memories from the previous Raava and would not think to create an "avatar." The avatar we know was only made because Wan got desperate and risked a permanent fusion with Raava, not knowing what the consequences of such a merger would be.   

It was interesting to see that    fire was actually the first element in the cycle and not air like I had assumed   . As for those extra chakra paths, I just assume that everything is covered under the 4 elements and there are more sub-bending styles left to be discovered/re-discovered. I could see sound bending being a sub-skill to air because sound waves would be similar to air bending. Light bending would go to fire since fire creates light. Thought bending (mind reading, control, etc.) goes with water as a side skill of blood bending by targeting the fluids in the brain. We've already seen plant bending from the swamp tribe water benders, using a technique similar to blood bending. Or maybe these would all just be sub-sets of energy bending and only the avatar is able to use them. Has it been confirmed whether or not a non-avatar human can use energy bending?

I also have a question after watching this episode. We've seen the avatar remove a person's ability to bend with energy bending, but would he/she be able to grant bending abilities as well? It was made clear in these last 2 episodes that a human cannot utilize more than 1 element at a time without    Raava's help   , so obviously Korra can't give another bending style to a bender. But could she give bending to a nonbender? What about removing a current bender's element and giving them a different one? I could see this being the answer to rebuilding the air nomads. Just give air bending to Tenzin's air acolytes once they've proven themselves worthy. I wondered this the first time we saw energy bending used by Aang, but I figured he could only suppress existing bending chakra pools, not add new ones. Seeing the    lion turtles grant/remove bending to the humans    made me wonder about this again.
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Mon-Kitsune » Mon Oct 21, 2013 7:08 am

1. If you'd looked at the original question you'd have noticed I proposed that as well. I just was exploring if that was NOT the answer, since that had far more interesting ramifications.
2. Intersting thought, and it would be an excellent way to rebuild. However I'm not 100% sure it would work. I seemed to me that the turtles gave and took away the powers; that they "put something in" people to make them be able to bend. In some it got turned off but the same "space" is in each one. This is why    Wan needed Raava    his "space" was already occupied. I is also possible that the reason there are non benders is    interbreeding between those who still had the power when the turtles stopped giving it and those that did not (i.e. if the turtles had told EVERYONE in thier cities to come, and given them ALL the gift before stopping; bending would be 100%   . That also might be the real reason why bending was 100% in the airbenders,    THAT lion turtle did (either becuase he thought it was a good idea, or because since he leviatates and flies, he decided that it was important for everyone to be able to get on/off him without falling to thier deaths.)   . So what I was getting at was, the problem with that plan might be that none of the nomads have the correct "thing" to airbend, that the avatar can turn bending on and off, but CAN'T switch them. Korra could grant bending to the Air Acolytes; but it'd be whatever bending was in thier blood (probably earth/fire). To really start it again, it might be more effective for    Korra to try and find an Air turtle, and try and talk it into re-granting powers in this special case (the soul turtle did for Aang so it seems as if the decision to stop granting powers was a voluntary decision of the turtles, not some sort of unbreakable geas. Assuming thier IS still an air turtle (the extremely small number of Air Nomads makes me semi confident that there may have only been ONE air turtle in Wan's time; and that ALL the airbenders might be descended from that one village. So if that turtle is gone, that may be it.)   
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Spider Tiki » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:45 pm

Then again, these lion turtles all could have been limited to four elements, maybe there were alot of lion turtles that could teach fire, then a bunch who taught air and so on, furthermore, the old Airbenders g   oku'd their way through the sky on clouds,    while aang needed a glider, the fuck?
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Mon-Kitsune » Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:33 pm

Well, maybe THAT was the 36th level trick Aang never learned, how to cloud step. Thought the fact that Aang is hardly the only Airbender to use a glider means that it's probably simply a lost art.
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Dibullba » Tue Oct 22, 2013 2:04 am

Clearly they were pegasi in disguise >.>. Though it does put into question on how they would even be allowed to do that since clouds would be more likely to act towards a water bender than an air bender. (And yes, I am aware of the combination used in "Fortune Teller")
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Mir@k » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:49 am

May i ask once again for a kind soul to link me to a site where i can watch these episodes in a quality other than "shit" and that has no restrictions to third world countries?
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Hallow Nova » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:02 am

I use gogoanime. Not the highest possible quality tho.
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Mir@k » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:06 am

I'm really missing out on the beautiful old style paintings of Wan's world. :C
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Hallow Nova » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:16 am

I know this pain T.T
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Dibullba » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:24 am

Mir@k wrote:May i ask once again for a kind soul to link me to a site where i can watch these episodes in a quality other than "shit" and that has no restrictions to third world countries?

Chia-Anime is my go to site for anything anime/Korra. Also if you are getting restricted from watching things because of where you live, you could use foxyproxy on Mozilla Firefox to bypass most of that by using a fake ISP
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby DarkKing » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:37 am

I'm still wondering what the new sub element for air is going to be. I was hoping it would be sound bending.
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Grieffon » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:00 pm

Those air nomads didn't ride on clouds, that's just how air looks like in that animation style. It wouldn't make sense if they could create cloud out of nothing and then ride it.

Not to spoil the discussion, but when Lemur man said "dozens", perhaps it was just an expression of "many" exaggerated out of annoyance, not necessarily that there are more than 20 of them.

There's one thing I have been wondering. The lion turtle give or take back bending by touching the head and the chest of a person. Aang performed energy bending the same way, and he was also able to teach Korra that skill. Would that mean energy bending is the ability to grant and remove bending?

Amon used his bloodbending to "remove" bending, which is a physical way. The way energy bending works seems to be spiritual. In that sense, Korra didn't return bending to Amon's victim, as a spiritual cure shouldn't fix a physical condition. She gave them new bending ability, some sort of creating a new connection between them and the elements. The lion turtles shown apparently can only give one element, which is probably the element they possessed (the air turtle was floating, so it probably could airbend). If someone who possess both the 4 elements and energy bending, my theory is that he/she can give any type of bending to anyone. If that's the case, it is possible for Korra to restore the air nomad's bending population.
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Dibullba » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:25 pm

Best way I can probably explain this Grieffon is once again referring to "The Guru". The abilities are granted spiritually, but they run through spiritually physical points in the body. Guru Pathik uses an example with a stream and debris in it to represent blockades to chakra flowing. The specific point that Amon bloodbends is the crown of the head which is the thought chakra point. In theory, Amon's method of getting rid of a benders ability could be reversed the same way with bloodbending as the abilities are merely blocked and not taken away. Energybending is the other way which uses chi to block and open chakra points to which bloodbending stems as a form of chi. So energybending can reverse both energybending and bloodbendings effects, but not vice versa as far as I would know.
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Mon-Kitsune » Tue Oct 22, 2013 5:35 pm

It also occurs to me that when Korra gave Lin back her bending she was immediatly able to metalbend again. If Korra had actually created a new path in Lin it would presumably be a pure earth path, as Korra does not know metalbending (at least, we have seen no evidence that she does) Lin would get her straight earth back, but she'd have to re-learn metal (probably quickly since she knows the motions, but it would take time.) That is, unless some previos incarnation of the Avatar already knows it (i.e. Toph did not discover it, she re-discovered it).
Oh and just because I'm a anal retentive, does anyone else think that the Lemur man may have erred in calling Mula a "cat deer". To me, at least, her feline side looked more like a caracal than a domestic cat. I know that "cat" is techically still correct, as a caracal is a cat, but it's sort of like calling a lion turtle a "cat turtle".
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Princess » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:44 pm

People have said what I pretty much came here for, but I don't think we really need to black list. The forum says spoilers are here.


But anyway, I think the lastest two episodes were fantastic. A bit rushed, but better than we have seen in Korra's story so far. I like the while lion turtle giving the bending, but the true masters (dragons, badger miles, etc) were awesome to have shown how to REALLY bend. I love the backstory shit. We'll see how this season goes, but I feel like it's too many plots into one story. And it sucks. I would love rinse Vaatu be a big bad in a later season, but of course they are going to cram it into this one........................
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Slendy » Fri Oct 25, 2013 9:33 am

Stuffaluffagus wrote:I would love rinse Vaatu be a big bad in a later season, but of course they are going to cram it into this one........................

Well, we can't really assume that. Vaatu is a major part of the avatar universe and can never truly be killed. They might defeat him in this season, but I doubt it's the last we'll see of him. A lot of people have thrown around the idea of him merging with someone to form a dark avatar. Maybe that's what Unalaq is planning to do. Though I'd rather not see something so awesome be squandered on Unalaq of all people. I imagine Unalaq will fail, Korra and Raava will win the Harmonic Convergence, and the civil war will end on peaceful terms. Vaatu, however, could get away after losing the harmonic convergence and then search the world for a suitable host. This new dark avatar will then train during season 3 (while a different bad guy shows up), briefly show up in 1 or 2 episodes of season 3 as some mysterious figure people have witnessed bending multiple elements (foreshadowing the next season), and then serve as the ultimate and final antagonist of the series. If we got a fully realized Avatar Korra vs. a fully realized Dark Avatar for our final showdown, it could very well even trump Aang's fight with Ozai.

It sounds crazy, but I can't think of a better antagonist. If this were to somehow happen, who would you guys like to see be the dark avatar? Someone familiar? Someone new?
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby Hallow Nova » Fri Oct 25, 2013 10:05 am

Bolin as the Dark Avatar :3
We already kind of see him getting consumed by his fame.
He's also already a bender. So one less element to master.

Course with fire being the first element Wan got, seeing a firebender become the first dark avatar would be interesting.
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Re: The Legend of Korra (Spoilers, nukka! Beware!)

Postby MQuinny1234 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:12 pm

Why would Unalaq merge with Vaatu?

Why would anyone...I'm seeing it as more likely Vaatu has somehow managed to get some influence over the outside world and is orchestrating someone to fuse with him, rather than someone looking to fuse with him out of their own originality.
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