Time to mix it up

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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Tenshi Nova » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:52 am

Cerulean wrote:Chapter 8 had 38 pages, of which Chi was in 23 (meaning she took up about 61% of this chapter's focus). Now, as for her appearance compared to the rest of the comic, she's been in a total of 26 pages so far. There are exactly 280 pages of Grim Tales. Which means that in the bigger picture, she has only really occupied 8% of the story's focus (and been focused on since 4/1/2013 (yikes nearly going on a year)). In any case, here are some things I jotted down:

For Chapter 9:
Chi has had 3 pages (1.1% of the story's focus).

For Chapter 8 (13.6% of the story's focus):
Chi received 23 pages
Grim Family/Aku&Him Received 15 pages

GTFO received 35 pages (which means that it took up 12.5% of the story's focus). And that lasted from 7/6/12-3/24/13.

WHAM received 66 pages (which means that it took up 23.6% of the story's focus). And this lasted from 2/22/11-6/30/12.

Then the main section of the story received 138 pages (which means that it took up 49.3% of the story's focus).

GTFO played into readers' curiosity on Mimi and her past. I'd say less than 5 pages from that chapter could be seen as unnecessary.
WHAM is part of the main story, seeing how it explains Mimi entering Grimskull.
The percentages are interesting. It does, in a way, emphasize the amount of information given recently.
Course, the problem is that the 8%, which in all honesty feels almost completely unneeded, is growing.

Havoc wrote:Okay, you have a point, but it still doesn't make it any less underwhelming. I'm not expecting her to throw a fucking party over it or anything; just a little sign of joy. She managed to go from powerless to being able to send clones through the phone without any sorta struggle, or without hardly giving it any thought. At least Junior had to get the hang of his powers, his inability to control them almost got everyone killed. He had to work to get full control of his powers, he's even gloated about having them. That shows personality and flaws within his character and development; that's interesting.

I believe this has been gone over a number of times.
A little sign of joy.
This is again, where over analysis is necessary.

In Junior's case, his powers derive from Grim and Nergal. Grim was not born knowing how to control his powers, and even after his numerous years of service, Grim comes across situations where he's inexperienced. The Nergal power wasn't even his to begin with. Nergals seem to be able to control their powers at a relatively young age, which is why we can see that Minnie effortlessly did what she had done. Junior has struggles because it makes sense that he does.

In Chi's case, her powers are inherited from Aku. Aku was able to manipulate his powers immediately. Aku had a goal, intelligence and strength, instantly. The fact that Chi didn't have her powers from the beginning actually helps her understanding. Aku could be able to do more than he believes possible, but he doesn't need to, nor has he felt the need to. Chi knew her powers would come, and it was expected for her to understand them at Aku's level. With the amount of time Chi had prior her powers, she could learn from Aku and let her imagination run wild with the possibilities.
It's also heavily believed that Chi's creation has Blossom's influence. Blossom spawned intelligent, with an understanding of her basic powers.
It isn't surprising at all that Chi gained her powers and was able to manipulate them perfectly almost instantly. If anything, it took her too long to do so. She, more than likely, could've been able to make a clone and catapult it to Tainted Souls.

It may be annoying, but it does make sense.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Cerulean » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:18 am

Are you referring to the repetitiveness (like how they repeatedly make it known that Chi has strong feelings for Mimi) of said 8% being unnecessary? Just curious

The data I posted before also seem to imply a pattern developing (should we ever be introduced to anymore new characters). For instance, as you said, WHAM was part of the main story. It was followed by GTFO, which gave us a peek at Mimi's background. Chapter 8 was part of the main story, and it's being followed by a GTFO-esque chapter (which is giving us a peek at Chi & Mimi's background). If it's following this pattern, then we can probably expect a flashback within this flashback too....Though, we didn't exactly have a "big" flashback in Chapter 8, so there's that at least.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Tenshi Nova » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:05 am

Neat note. It could be due to the individual authors' desire to 'showoff' their OC.

The repetitiveness was a part of it. More of it was the constant reestablishment of what kind of character Chi was, when it was blatant. Then there's just the pages that were completely pointless.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Cerulean » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:03 am

Ohhhh you meant the chapter, I thought you were referring solely to Chi. True, it isn't exactly the most subtle way to introduce a new character, but then if they wanted her to come off as slightly/majorly obnoxious/annoying/disliked, then it's mission accomplished yes?

That last one wasn't really pointless, seeing as how it implied that Minnie will really follow through on what she wants to do. But yea, the other two probably could have just been combined into one page. At least she wasn't the only one with pointless pages. Though I get your point on how the pointless pages on top of the repetitive reestablishment of Chi's character made last chapter feel lackluster.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Tenshi Nova » Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:50 am

I thought the Minnie page was pointless. It's like a kid that draws a face of someone they dislike on something they can punch. It's more exaggerated due to the fictious world, but that's how I saw it. When Minnie got mad in the vault, that seemed to already established her feelings. Her hesitation in front of Mandy established her direct actions. When push comes to shove, we'll have people who think she will and people who think she won't. That page doesn't really do anything, imo.


I felt that the repetition of Chi may have been used to emphasize her irritation. Seeing NEK is new to the team.
The reasons I didn't...

The pace is too different, it still seems improvised, while the amount of time/events remain minimal.

Updates. With pages coming out infrequently, thoughts and ideas settle in an unbalanced way. Say Chi as an example, the discussion of her character comes up every week, and the conclusions are identical.

Blossom, as interesting as the page was, it was dropped immediately. The poke, in all honesty, felt like poor story telling. It's like telling the story of the 3 little pigs, but the 2nd pig owned a chicken.
And Sugar Bits. Taking on extra work, when the current works are rough enough, 'risky' is an understatement.

All of these problems can be addressed with relative ease, but rather than looking into the forums, they just leave us in the dark. It's not awful, but after being given second hand comments, it just seems worse.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby silvercover » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:19 am

really its like what ive said last page(which most probably skipped due to the walloftext), that its due to how chi is just suddenly pushed up into the focus without proper build up earlier.

it would have been better had we gotten a tease of chi, or even have her start off as a side character, somewhere before this. adding importance/focus to a new character at this pace, no matter how good or well designed they are, is going to be annoying for a reader. the reader, who's getting used to the steady growth and development of the story, will be thrown off with the sudden inclusion of a new character who's getting immediate importance.

a way to compare I guess would be to see how minnie and mimi, or just mimi, got their focus and became integrated into the main characters. mimi was first pretty unknown and mysterious with her appearance until much later. for minnie then, we got initial impression from the protagonist but then our impression changed once we saw a bit more of what she really was like.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Tenshi Nova » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:45 am

Have you read every post? I directly responded to the idea, even provided an example of what they could've done.

Minnie and Mimi are poor examples for a few reasons.
We had a warning for what to expect.
Minnie is Mandy's daughter, and gave Junior her powers.
Minnie also didn't have a chapter devoted to her life.
Mimi's chapter was titled 'Further Orientation', we knew what we were getting from that chapter. There was no Chi's Chapter warning.
Mimi's backstory wasn't meant to move the main plot, it was there to help us gain depth on her character.
This chapter was treated like a normal chapter, with the expectations for the main plot to be moved. Not 'Chi in your face' with a side of main plot.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Sigment » Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:20 pm

There's nothing here that definitively says that it will focus specifically on Chi. The possibility exists that events in this chapter will revolve around Mimi, or maybe both of them together. I'll admit that the story's progressing kinda slowly, and to a degree, NEK may or may not be at fault. Page for page, GT and SB now reveals far less information than PpGD does. Or at least, it looks that way to me. Could be wrong, which apparently happens a lot.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Cerulean » Wed Feb 05, 2014 2:00 pm

@Tenshi When she was with Mandy she collapsed in defeat because she didn't follow through. How would we have known that, after putting the costume on, that she was serious if we weren't shown this? She was upset when she went to her room, true, but, at least for me, that page showed that she wants to steel her resolve. And sure, her painting on a mirror is child like, but then she is a child so I don't mind that. Yes there isn't much going on in the page, and yes there really isn't much to discuss about it, but I personally still feel it has it's place in the story. I don't think it was meant to tell us whether or not she will act on it in the future, just to show us that, for the moment, she is steeling her resolve.

Well, as you said, the pacing isn't the same as before, but then neither is the editor/writer. Yes, the thing about Blossom was dropped, but how do we know that it won't come up later? Same with Megaville. They aren't being discussed right now, true, but that doesn't mean that they will never be addressed. Though I'll admit that the infrequency of updates feeds into that fear for sure.

@silvercover I got the impression that she was never meant to be in the story before. That basically Bleedman ran across the character (or her presumed parents fandom) and decided to just add her in.

Though, even if she was meant to be in the story, when would they have had time to mention her? Mimi doesn't talk. Jeff had no reason to mention/acknowledge her. It was an abrupt introduction, but it does sorta fit into the story.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Tenshi Nova » Wed Feb 05, 2014 4:56 pm

The reason I feel the page is unnecessary is because of the way you described it. It's the 'in the moment' feeling. The entire page just reminded me of that kid that punches a picture of someone they dislike. In the moment, they're serious, they have that mindset, but until they're physically confronted, we won't know how they're going to react.

If Minnie is ever placed in a situation where she could harm Mimi, there's going to be a debate on whether or not she will or won't do it.
The interpretations of this page doesn't add anything imo. One side can say it's proof that she's serious, while the other claim that it's just a child being a child.


I know that their pokes can be readdressed in the future, we all hope and expect it to. The problem with that, is it ties into their updates. Take PPGD, we know what will happen, but the updates hinders the comic on the forums. With all the little pokes here and there, barely being addressed little by little, the threads for GT may run dry. Over the past 10-ish updates, roughly 3 months, all the threads are repetitive: Oh look an interesting topic to discuss, 10 posts later, no information, back to why we or why we don't hate Chi. At least that's the pattern I see.
Short spurts of topics, then we circle back to the attitudes towards Chi.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby ULTRADJ » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:39 pm

I know I should read all this text, but it's kind of giving me a headache to conclude my own theories on Chi after all this
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Cerulean » Wed Feb 05, 2014 5:50 pm

@Tenshi I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I still feel as if this page is relevant. No it doesn't prove that she will definitively harm Mimi if given the chance, but it does show that she wants to. It's something that's been so built up on (pissed off, nergal speak,Sliced up thing,Broken Mirror Glare, Almost Arrow, frustration at not following through) that I'd almost wager that this page represented her hostilities towards Mimi reaching a new high. Besides, it wouldn't have felt right (to me) if they just left it at Minnie changing into her new outfit, and not showing how she felt while wearing it. It'd have been implied, I guess, but at least the page leaves little room for doubt. It's more build up on top of what has already built up, she wavered once, now she's back on track (supposedly).

Personally I feel like both the PPGD and the GT threads have been repetitive as of late. They both almost always circle back to one thing or another that's been discussed before. So it isn't something that is completely limited to GT and Chi. As for whether or not they'll dry up, that's more dependent on the members than the actual page I believe. I mean, on the page of Sam being electrocuted, there were 12 pages of discussion, despite not much happening there. Same with the Daughter of Death page, there were 6 pages of discussion there. If the other members want to discuss something (as long as it pertains to the topic at hand apologies for bringing up PPGD here) then it'll get discussed, so I doubt it'll completely dry up. Will it be slow? Maybe, but I don't think it'll completely dry up.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Tenshi Nova » Wed Feb 05, 2014 6:55 pm

I was comparing the recent repetition in the GT threads to the ongoing repetition in PPGD threads.

Also, I meant the entire scene with Minnie felt unnecessary. We honestly didn't need to see her change into her new outfit and cut the mirror with Mimi's likeness.

The other situations you pointed out were a scene. She was there for a reason, her reactions were there for a reason.
Having this chapter randomly end with a transition from Chi to Minnie was pointless. Why are we looking at Minnie?
Before her anger had purpose in the scene. Minnie was fighting Mimi. Minnie just witness Junior protect Mimi. At the end of that chapter, Minnie overhears Junior and Mimi 'bonding' while the chapter itself was wrapping up the Grim family members. In the final case, Junior and Mimi were in plain view, and that scene was to help Minnie's development while showing off Mandy at the same time.
But at the end of this chapter? Why?
The new chapter has absolutely no known connection to Minnie, or the Grims.
It takes place before the event too, so Minnie wouldn't have the outfit or spite.
I just don't see why the final scene was put in, besides fanservice.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Cerulean » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:14 pm

Ohhh you're questioning the placement of the scene moreso than the actual scene. Ok, now I understand. Yes, it probably would have been better if it were placed earlier in the chapter (right after reading the letter from Mandy for instance). A better transition would have been if it ended with Chi and started with Chi (next chapter).

And other than the fanservice, it was probably put there because they hadn't revealed what was in the box yet and didn't want to wait until chapter 9 was over to show us. Makes sense considering what Chapter 9 seems to be about.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby ULTRADJ » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:36 pm

The threads have gone repetitive lately with all the guessing, complaining about certain things, and not knowing what's going to happen next. There's only so much to talk about, and so little information given that we all end up repeating ourselves one way or another.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Tenshi Nova » Wed Feb 05, 2014 7:41 pm

You should read the posts :3
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby ULTRADJ » Wed Feb 05, 2014 10:05 pm

I did read the posts up to a point when they suddenly became full length novels XD
It's like,"Chapter 6 on why I hate Chi. Chi is slightly darker than Aku and that fact messes her validity of her genetics of being her daughter." And then it's like, "In novel 27 on Mimi's powers, just like the rest of the cast, she hasn't shown what she can do except for taking down cerberus and Jr. and her sister and blah blah blah"
I mean, I'm not trying to be rude or complain (even though it's kind of what I'm doing right now XD) but I know you want your point to be through, but when I have to catch up with everything said, it's like reading the next 300 page book on the GT forum novels. My English teacher is already pushing the class to read a book already, and as much as I like reading posts and the comics, I might have to skim a bit reading these.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby The Mad Doctor » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:11 pm

Really long posts are the reason this forum is so brilliant.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby ULTRADJ » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:19 pm

Yeah, long posts can be fun, but it strains the eyes after a while. Plus, my previous post gave me an idea. I'll take the discussion of Chi thus far, and turn it into a 250 page novel of epic proportions!
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby The Mad Doctor » Wed Feb 05, 2014 11:21 pm

It will likely be getting into the new-York times.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Tenshi Nova » Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:14 pm

ULTRADJ wrote:My English teacher is already pushing the class to read a book already, and as much as I like reading posts and the comics, I might have to skim a bit reading these.

I have 3 English classes, all reading different books c:
I only suggest you read the posts, so that your contribution is more well informed and based on less assumptions.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Tuor » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:41 pm

@Ultra: then wait until you have time to read everything thoroughly, and then compose a post. You don't have to be posting all the time. Or branch out to less reading intensive areas of the forum if you still like being active c:
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby ULTRADJ » Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:54 pm

Tenshi Nova wrote:
ULTRADJ wrote:My English teacher is already pushing the class to read a book already, and as much as I like reading posts and the comics, I might have to skim a bit reading these.

I have 3 English classes, all reading different books c:
I only suggest you read the posts, so that your contribution is more well informed and based on less assumptions.

Dang, and I thought I had it rough. O.o I forgot how brutal big city schools, especially New York ones, can be on homework. I've been away longer that I thought.

Tuor wrote:@Ultra: then wait until you have time to read everything thoroughly, and then compose a post. You don't have to be posting all the time. Or branch out to less reading intensive areas of the forum if you still like being active c:

I will do that, thanks for the advice! It's all been taken to account. Reading does help to make more helpful, informative, and intelligent posts. Oh btw, I send the rough draft of the book "1001 ways I hate Chi on the Grim Tales Snafu comic" to my editor, and he says it's likely to be the next hit in New York's top seller list XD
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Sigment » Thu Feb 06, 2014 5:13 pm

Well then, shall we get back on topic?

I'm willing to bet that Mimi will at least get Chi away from Skulker. Whether or not she'll be able to fight him with an appreciable level of effectiveness remains to be seen. However, I'm jumping on the "S.S. Skulker Better Not Be A Pushover" as far as the fight in general goes.
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Re: Time to mix it up

Postby Tenshi Nova » Thu Feb 06, 2014 8:05 pm

In all honesty, if Skulker was professional, he should just phase out and leave.
Taking out the guards makes sense. They could report back to Aku or call back up. A random girl shouldn't take his time.
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