Blazblue

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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:11 am

I'm trying to make Makoto work, but it seems like my lambda is getting better faster than her.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Cascade » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:46 pm

It depends on who you play against, really. I'm a complete sucker for Lambda's drive spam, and I imagine being better at Instant Guard would help a little.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Wed Aug 04, 2010 1:37 pm

I know no one really uses Noel here, but do any of you know the best way to do Noel's 6C loop? I can never get her to do anything after the grab cancel. She just stands there.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Jay » Wed Aug 04, 2010 3:22 pm

Maybe you're pressing 6C too early? That's the first way most people fuck up links. That or you're not pressing quick enough. I'm sure it's just a timing error.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:02 pm

Yeah. Probably. Can anyone here do it?
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Jay » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:08 pm

I've seen people do it, so it must be possible.

Oh, but I'm silly, I just realized that was CT. It's no longer possible in CS because 6C comes out slower.

If you want a loop though, check out her Haida loop. That one's significantly more complex though.

Example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivWtr9eDeDA
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:26 pm

I've tried the Haida loop. It is hard. I can never do it fast enough. My opponent recovers before I can move to hit them with 6C or I'm too close and 22C shoots over their head.

Noel is not user friendly!
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Jay » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:32 pm

Haida loop's very character specific. Make sure you're using the right version for the right characters.

As with anything else, it's just a matter of practice. Start easy (like with Tager), and set up a crouching training dummy that techs and recovers ASAP, and blocks with out block switching, then experiment with the overhead starter (6B?) like this guy does in the video. It's just a matter of speed.

Also, I've not played Noel enough to tell, but do you have to reenter 22C to switch from 22B? I know you can mash B to keep shooting, so maybe you can just press C afterwards?

Here's a good rundown of the people you should even bother Haida looping though: http://www.dustloop.com/forums/showthre ... post702579
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:41 pm

You can do it with characters other than Noel? I had no idea. But still Noel is the one I need to learn it with.

I think you can you can do 22B then hit C. At least in CT.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Jay » Wed Aug 04, 2010 4:45 pm

No, I mean you should do it *on* Tager xD As in, have Tager be your practice dummy.

Noel's the only one with the Haida loop, and that's the list of who it's best to do it to, and those where it's not really worth it (because you won't get enough reps).
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Wed Aug 04, 2010 5:14 pm

Ah. I shall practice against Tager. Other than the Haida loop are there any other combos with Noel in CS?
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:29 pm

You're right practicing it on Tager helps. Its actually do able now. But against a human player? I don't know.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Jay » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:11 am

A human in hit stun should be the same as a computer in hit stun (provided you've told the training dummy to tech as soon as possible).

The difficulty is having the nerves to remember everything you need to do, and the ability to create the opportunity to use a combo. For everything else, there's nothing actually different between whailing on a human and whailing on a dummy.

That said, I think Dustloop has a Noel CS Guide or something, that pretty much just lists her new BnB's, in addition to discussing any technical changes between editions (that's where I got tipped off about 6C being slowed down, making the grab miss loop to become unusable).
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:19 am

Mmhmm. Mmhmm. I shall go read that.

But yeah the AI is faster at recovering than I am with hitting them with 6C. I can throw them to the ground 22C but they recover and become invincible while I'm doing 6C.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Jay » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:29 am

Are you buffering the dash C? The idea is that, I think, you tap in 66C before you've even finished lagging, because the game should buffer it for you, which is the key to making the loop tight.

And try variations like 22BC or 22BBC, because the addition of B's might affect lag. I dunno.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:41 am

Buffering? Lag? Your fighting game lingo is too much for my inferior mind.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Jay » Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:54 am

Buffering is when you insert inputs before the intended action is supposed to happen.

So, assume a certain game has a really generous buffer time (like 5 seconds).

You can mash out 6B 22BBC 66C 22BBC 66C 22BBC 5D 2D 236D or w/e all at once out of time.

But the game would automatically work out all of those commands in order as long as it perceives them as linkable set of commands.

BBCS naturally, isn't generous enough to give you 5 seconds, but there's probably some level of buffering at work, which apparently is good enough that you can enter 66C a little bit before 22C completely finishes, letting you instantly microdash and do the C move and continue the loop.

When I said "lag", I meant the frames (time) you spend doing a move before you can do anything else again.

Finally, the easiest way to think about buffer is probably this: Tager. Tager can jump forward, and before he lands, he can input the 360 command while still in his jumping animation. Then, timing it right, he'll press A near the end (with the 360 motion close enough), and do an A buster at exactly the moment he lands.

Buffering basically lets you input commands during the "lag" or frames of other actions, so all you do is press the button at the right time and the move, even with complicated commands, will come out right away.

The simplest example though, is Lambda. When you use her 5DD, you don't press the second D right at the time the first D finishes, you just mash 5DD quickly, and the game automatically reads it and does a tech proof link automatically.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:00 am

I may have done the the 6C microdash by accident several times while I have them caught in a corner and occasionally while practicing the 6C loop. I notice she moves quicker, but I can never repeat it on purpose. So I could after I do 214A I could input 22C 66 6C and it should carry that out?
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Jay » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:03 am

I can't really comment on the precise timing, but from the sound of things, you're probably going to be entering 66C probably just before you should be coming out of lag?

It might pay of if you tap 66 and hold the last 6 while you press C. I don't think it'd be necessary to do 66 6C.

Because the game is able to read it as (6[6)C] where () is dash, and [] is 6C. You just need to make sure the game doesn't read it as 665C, which you can keep from happening by not returning the pad/stick to neutral position before entering C.

Just like how you can do a diagonal jump (forward for example) 68/9 and then instantly push 6 for an airdash right away. Because the game treats 9 as 68/86, so when the game reads it it'll see 866, meaning (8[6)6] where () is diagonal forward jump and [] is airdash. Such is what an Instant Air Dash (IAD) is called.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:10 am

I guess that is why Noel likes to do Optic Barrel when I'm crouching then try to run.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Jay » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:24 am

You can also sometimes do things out of order.

Like all those times I barely got off the ground and did Lambda's aerial 214D (the sickle blade), it was through entering 2147 (very short pause) D. Even though I entered the 214 before the jump, the game's still able to read it as 214D in the air, though it requires particular timing.

This is called tiger kneeing, or just TK.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Thu Aug 05, 2010 2:26 am

That is pretty interesting. I've just been doing everything in order and putting the inputs in as they happen. I need to practice all of this.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Icha » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:57 pm

Making Tager your punching bag? Did you hate that matchup that much?
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Thunderbolt » Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:59 pm

Yes. Yes I hate it quite so. But he is much easier to practice on.

And the whole putting the inputs in before the animation thing seems like it works. If I put the correct inputs that is. But when I do I can hit with 6C three or four times before they get too far and recover.
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Re: Blazblue

Postby Jay » Thu Aug 05, 2010 5:01 pm

Well, ideally, after about 3 or 4 reps, you should combo end with a drive combo (use drive after 22C instead of 66C). Since Noel loves the corner, use which ever finisher would stick them in the corner most easily (if your looping hasn't already taken then into it).

All this talk reminds me though. I really should put in some practice for Lambda's corner loop.
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