Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

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Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Wulfespinndel » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:05 am

Hey guys. I'd like to politely ask you guys for your attention for just this moment. While this thread may sound like it should go to the Snafu Gaming section, I just feel like it's something we all need to seriously consider:

So I had this lecture I got from my dad because I said the word 'what' in an offensive tone, being very inconsiderate. But what started out as a disciplinary action turned into a realization, at least for me. And that would be...that I, as a person had been disrespected in a way I had never thought of before: by a certain person, or people, in the gaming community. In this case, it was with Splinter Cell.

We know that when you ask someone how he is doing, a person may also say "thanks for asking", showing how considerate you and I are of that other person's feelings, and I think we have all done that before. The reason why I am point this out is because it's something that is starting to become more apparent not just from them but from each and every one of us too, and I've been getting that most frequently when playing Combat Arms. But for Combat Arms, the thing is that respect has been something a lot of the players in that community have been demanding for a long time ever since the game started to fall apart.

I recently decided that after finding out I was a rank away from getting the privilege to become the most infamous and controversial type of moderator the game has known, the Elite Moderator, or E-Mod for short, that I would be better than any E-Mod the game itself has ever known. The first thing I did is ask people what should I do to model myself in that image then I went beyond that question and went to other threads in the Combat Arms forum. From what I found out, the E-Mods are most notable for being Rage Kickers, young stupid kids ages 12-15 (typical exaggeration in my opinion), etc. But that's not the point here or anything.

The thing about this is that it connected to my gaming experience with the fifth Splinter Cell Game, called Conviction for short, where every time I would get detected the enemies would just cuss at me and call me names. I started getting offended here in this case not only because it was horrible vulgarity but also because it was so unclean, and thus, the game was like no other Splinter Cell game I have ever played. Agreed by the community as the worst Splinter Cell game ever made, Conviction abandoned lots of things the last four Splinter Cells had in its core, like hiding bodies, throwing objects, whistling, etc. And according to Maxime Beland, the Creative Director of Conviction, he wanted to put more of an emphasis on action, something that Splinter Cell wasn't, as said here on Wikipedia via a cited source:

Wikipedia wrote:One of Ubisoft's stated goals for Conviction was to make the game more accessible.[14] According to Béland, Chaos Theory is "very hardcore", which turned off many players and disconnected people from the fantasy of being Sam Fisher. Béland contrasted the earlier games in the series with works containing James Bond or Jason Bourne, who "run fast, they don't make noise, they kill one, two, three or four guys super quickly," and he stated that Conviction delivers a similarly dynamic experience with more of an emphasis on action than previous Splinter Cell games.


It was here that I realized that the guys at Ubisoft were also at that phase like other gaming companies with the franchise where they just stop caring about its fan base, and twist the franchise to their own liking, as opposed to what it originally was supposed to be by the progenitors of the series. This is a good example because DmC Devil May Cry and other games tried to be more appealing to a different kind of audience rather than its traditional audience, but also, they tried to make their games accessible as well like Conviction. This is quite apparent with many Japanese game developers these days, and Square Enix had even once told their employees to try and beat Skyrim. What the heck, am I right? Not to mention the kind of impact CoD has had on the gaming industry as well, so now we have Resident Evil 6 with Michael Bay type explosions and what not, and all of that just doesn't fit at all. I think I remember if I'm not mistaken that Capcom tried to appeal to Call of Duty players?

Anyways I am not implying however that this is all for money or anything. But the one common thing about all of this is the fact that it brought disrespect. And this is where I believe is where the gaming industry is falling apart with its consumers, and it's because of that disrespect. It doesn't matter whether or not the game has a small or big change; if it brings disrespect it's bound to fall, and beloved franchises alike are what I believe to be very delicate, so developers have to be very careful. And unfortunately, Ubisoft wasn't; ever since they conceived Blacklist they had been trying their best to cater to the same audience because of what Conviction did to the franchise, and to me, this is a really bad thing. To this day I still don't believe they have won back their old audience. And no, I'm not bringing up the Eric Johnson/Michael Ironside Voice Actor story up because that really has nothing to do with this.

In any case, we are very fortunate that games like Metal Gear Solid are still going very strong today with Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain, having maintained its formula for years to come and still pulling things off like a glove. A franchise like MGS is also a great example of how delicate video games are. If any changed had been made by someone else that isn't Hideo Kojima, MGS would have went the same road Splinter Cell is going at right now. And I'm also thankful for what's going on with Kenji Inafune and his new project Mighty No. 9, and it also shows how even more so of a great example how delicate a franchise like Mega Man is; in this case, you hold things back from your fans, and the franchise gets thrown into purgatory while the fans talk crap about Capcom.

In conclusion, all this disrespect that these games get from their developers has been tearing this industry out for sometime, though when assessing it, I find that the damage done by them could go to a point where it may be colossal. I could see just one reason why finding a good game to play these days is so hard.

And also, Shigeru Miyamoto and Satoru Iwata have been really disrespecting a lot as well. I know this thread is just obvious to the end but after my dad's lecture I realized that we could have a chance to prevent any further damage done by just being respectful ourselves as players. When AlphaOmegaSin says "nerds, nerdettes, gamers, GAME THE FUCK ON" he really means it.

So if any of you in Snafu desire to have a part in the gaming industry (I know some of you already do) and want to possibly go higher than where you are now, please, for Pete's sake and all of these beloved franchises, have respect for what you create and what you decide for those games, because they're very delicate ideas that may bring people together very close. There is no longer games like that anymore. And as for getting along with other players, same thing. Tearing each other apart as a part of a game that is approaching its downfall or already has just adds insult to injury. I love playing video games, and I most especially like playing with others too, but one day we might just fall apart just like these franchises.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby EagleMan » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:18 am

I am/was a modder for a game, and I'm pretty proud of what I did. Too many modders were hateful of community feedback, rude, arrogant, and often would ultimately disappear off the face of the Earth to never release any updates again, leaving their fanbase hanging.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Tuor » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:32 am

I feel like you'd get a kick out of Jim Sterling's Jimquisition videos

This is just one that I think is kind of relevant to what you're talking about

"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Wulfespinndel » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:13 am

I just watched that a few minutes ago after you introduced me to the guy.

Bookmarked the video page for my pleasure too. Hopefully after my dad's lecture I will also try to be a frugal spender.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Q.U. » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:58 am

Am I the only one who has never said "thanks for asking" when somebody asked me about my day/life?
This post is intended for information only. Please do not reply to this message as responses cannot be read or acknowledged due to the stupidity of the user.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Krest » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:40 am

Q.U. wrote:Am I the only one who has never said "thanks for asking" when somebody asked me about my day/life?


I say "thanks" in most situations where I should be thankful. I was raised on manners, so it's natural for me in common speak. Not so much on the internet, though.

What I find so sad is that gaming, anime, etc used to be something for "nerds" - now it's been taken over by most people on the planet. You get ruder, more idiotic people everywhere, especially those that have no imagination. These people have managed to get positions of power everywhere on the web - especially in the gaming community. That's why common courtesy no longer exists in such places.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Tuor » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:43 am

Are you suggesting that "nerds" are never rude?
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Blood Lord » Tue Sep 10, 2013 11:49 am

So, just to get this straight. Because my eyes glazed over this, but I still want to understand here.

It's disrespectful for the gaming company to take gameplay actions from others and incorporate it into their games, or the content we see going into games?

Because MSG5 is getting some hell for their female character.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Wulfespinndel » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:20 pm

MGS5 isn't the only one. I remember watching the recent Jimquisition episodes about women having a more prominent and dominant role in video games.

I'm not against a developer's creative freedom. But if you add something to a franchise that either doesn't fit or isn't suppose to be there at all, that's disrespect right there, but I mean that in technical terms (ex. the action in later Resident Evil games, and quite possibly Killing in Motion Splinter Cell Blacklist, though I like that feature so much) Characters or Women alone should never fit in this context.

I feel a little uninformed about MGS5's situation though so give me some time to read on that.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Krest » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:43 pm

Tuor wrote:Are you suggesting that "nerds" are never rude?


No, not at all. But before we were a bit nicer to each other since "our kind" was not the "norm" so we "stuck together". As time went on, this changed since the things we loved became mainstream - thanks to the simplification and visual-LSD of modern games. So now nerds no longer have that stick-together mentality and the resulting rift causes them to be harsher to one another, making them a part of the majority of the current generation of internet users.

--

I know one thing people didn't like was the large change to Tomb Raider. That's a very good example. It's fine to create something that isn't the norm as long as you are careful about how the audience will react.

The following comic (you'll have to read from the linked page onward) is a pretty good mirror to the example above:

http://www.sandraontherocks.com/strips- ... e_princess
Last edited by Krest on Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Blood Lord » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:47 pm

Bellorosso del Fiore wrote:I'm not against a developer's creative freedom. But if you add something to a franchise that either doesn't fit or isn't suppose to be there at all, that's disrespect right there

Okay. I think I can see what you are getting at.

It'd be additions of things that would betray the core element of the game. Like if Halo suddenly became a MMO. Right?
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Krest » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:48 pm

Blood Lord wrote:It'd be additions of things that would betray the core element of the game. Like if Halo suddenly became a MMO. Right?


Hmmmm... Nah. I'd say if Halo got JRPG magic spells - then that would get hate.

After all, tons of people are loving the Destiny game's concept.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Blood Lord » Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:54 pm

That's not Halo, nor is it a MMO.

Destiny is rolling off as its own thing, not as something that currently is.

So I don't exactly see how that is the best of an example for this...
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Tuor » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:02 pm

I'm not clear on how it is either
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Asmodai » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:22 pm

Bellorosso del Fiore wrote:I'm not against a developer's creative freedom. But if you add something to a franchise that either doesn't fit or isn't suppose to be there at all, that's disrespect right there.

I do want to point out that its the company's right to change their owned franchise however they see fit. Fans dont always agree with it, in fact they usually loathe any kind of change to a formula they know and love, but that still doesnt take away the fact that its not the fans that own the rights to the game.

If Microsoft wants to build a Halo MMO, I can actually see that work out pretty well. Halo has a relatively rich universe, and Halo Wars and Assault (I believe it was called, the Windows 8 game) proved that Halo works outside of the first person shooter genre.

Fallout 3 is also a good example, it changed from a top down turn based strategy game to a first person shooter. I imagine fans of the original not being too pleased about this, but Fallout 3 is considered one of the best RPG's out there.

Splinter Cell Conviction was indeed the worst SC game in the franchise, but that doesnt take away the fact that it was still a damn good action game, and I certainly wont blame the developers for trying something new with the series.

I think more developers should try to experiment with their games. Sure, not everything would work out, but you might just get some really surprising games every now and then.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Wulfespinndel » Tue Sep 10, 2013 1:47 pm

You make a good point here Asmo. Before I got Conviction, I was a bit open minded to the Mark and Execute feature when I first saw the game in its current state. It was far better than what I first saw a few years ago where it looked a bit like Assassin's Creed. I was concerned that the feature would have made the game easy, but that turned out not to be so thankfully.

However, I consider Conviction and the games that followed after to be a franchise of its own. It just felt like another military shooter, but that's not to say that I don't like it completely. In fact, I think that Ubisoft should take those action elements and the third person perspective and turn it into a whole new shooter, and confine the franchise to its core stealth elements. The Killing in Motion in conjunction with the Mark and Execute along with the controls feel so great, like I'm some kind of super soldier.

And why not have Halo expand to other genres? I don't see a problem with that. That game you're thinking of is called Spartan Assault by the way.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Krest » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:45 pm

The Halo series is stopping so that Bungie can make Destiny, an MMO based off of their SciFi concepts. And yes, it's an MMORPG - a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. Bungie is just keeping the concept of separating players into groups for their own version of the game world. But it's still an MMORPG - a sandbox MMORPG, in fact. Many players see Destiny as a result of Halo, even though it isn't in the same universe.

That's what I meant.

As far as I've heard, versions of the gameworld will be saved rather than having small sessions that reset. The entire game will be played from one point to another - a version of the game will be saved no matter who is in it, even though I think each version will be specific to the person that created it.

Basically, it operates in the same way as Minecraft. Though "sandbox" refers more to what events occur rather than building blocks. It's still an ever-changing MMORPG.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Tuor » Tue Sep 10, 2013 2:59 pm

But it's not being called "Halo", so it doesn't matter, they can do whatever they want with it, they're not changing the "Halo" brand.
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Whatis6times9 » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:00 pm

Halo isn't stopping, Halo 4 wasn't even made by Bungie. When they broke free of Microsoft they left Halo.

Games are monetary art form, it's great to call them art but at the end of the day artistic vision needs to be balanced with the need to make money. And at this point I feel for all the times gamers have a legitimate gripe over the money end of games, they bitch way too much about things from the creative side.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Blood Lord » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:01 pm

Damn you ninjas!

The Halo series is stopping so that Bungie can make Destiny, an MMO based off of their SciFi concepts. And yes, it's an MMORPG - a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game

Are you shitting me? Are you sure you aren't a troll?
Bungie hasn't developed Halo since Halo Reach. 343 Studios took Halo over and it is so far from stopping it isn't funny. A trailer for Halo 5 is out.

Destiney isn't a MMO.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/48425 ... -of-gaming
Bungie and Activision however have made it clear that Destiny will be not be an MMO... Destiny will incorporate the multiplayer characteristics of the MMO genre. Destiny is being described as a “Shared-world shooter” and differs from standard MMOs in that an individual player will only be able to see and interact with other players that they have been matched with by Destiny's matchmaking system (As opposed to regular MMOs where you can see and interact with everyone in the game or on the server your character is on).
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Wulfespinndel » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:05 pm

Dang straight. Whatis.

Also, I'm sure everyone has heard about the death threats with the changes in weapon balancing Call of Duty right? I think the same may go with the technical side too, but correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Krest » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:18 pm

Blood Lord wrote:
The Halo series is stopping so that Bungie can make Destiny, an MMO based off of their SciFi concepts. And yes, it's an MMORPG - a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game

Are you shitting me? Are you sure you aren't a troll?
Bungie hasn't developed Halo since Halo Reach. 343 Studios took Halo over and it is so far from stopping it isn't funny. A trailer for Halo 5 is out.

Destiney isn't a MMO.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/48425 ... -of-gaming


I should have rephrased that. Bungie stopped working on Halo in order to work on "other projects", which was then revealed to be Destiny. I didn't say Destiny is Halo - I said that Destiny's concepts are based off of Halo because that's the vision Bungie has for its games. It's not about Spartans shooting lasers at each other and trying to stop a universe-devouring swarm, but it is about a Human VS Alien war in a SciFi world where guns and battlesuits are the norm. It's the same. Exact. Concept.

Are you going to believe a critic or the official recording of the developers talking at E3? Because I'm pretty sure they said it was an MMO in front of dozens of people, which then went viral. I'm saying this because I watched the entire length of the discussion.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Blood Lord » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:24 pm

Bellorosso del Fiore wrote:I'm sure everyone has heard about the death threats with the changes in weapon balancing Call of Duty right?

Nope. This is new to me.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Krest » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:27 pm

Blood Lord wrote:
Bellorosso del Fiore wrote:I'm sure everyone has heard about the death threats with the changes in weapon balancing Call of Duty right?

Nope. This is new to me.


Well, I'm pretty sure a weapon change would be obvious since it's set in a dystopian future.
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Re: Disrespect in the Gaming Industry

Postby Blood Lord » Tue Sep 10, 2013 3:36 pm

No shit.
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