Faith in humanity

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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby EagleMan » Mon May 27, 2013 3:35 pm

That was probably the first time in forever I explicitly mentioned my atheism and it was only because Rosso was being disrespectful as an atheist (in my view).

It's also never worth telling anyone in real life unless they specifically ask me, because in most places atheism still has a stigma to it. People just plain think you're a less trustworthy person if you don't believe in God. If you just say you're agnostic though people will just think you're confused, temporarily lost and savable, even though agnostic and atheist mean pretty much the same thing in practice.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Guardian » Mon May 27, 2013 3:37 pm

Yeah. I always laugh at people who claim their are agnostic for that reason.

I can understand why you keep your beliefs secure like that.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Vegedus » Mon May 27, 2013 3:47 pm

Thank god (heh) for not living in America. Atheism is pretty much the norm 'round here.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Mir@k » Mon May 27, 2013 3:49 pm

I'm okay with catholicism and i'm not the least bit bothered by anything.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Tuor » Mon May 27, 2013 4:23 pm

EagleMan wrote:If you just say you're agnostic though people will just think you're confused, temporarily lost and savable

Ya, that's why I often just say I'm atheist.
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Exodis » Mon May 27, 2013 4:24 pm

Is it okay to call yourself an agnostic catholic?
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Guardian » Mon May 27, 2013 4:25 pm

You're a catholic who doesn't believe in god but believes in a higher power? Might have some conflict of interests in there, but I've heard weirder things.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Tuor » Mon May 27, 2013 4:30 pm

Randori wrote:Is it okay to call yourself an agnostic catholic?

That really seems like a contradiction, you need to explain more.
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Mir@k » Mon May 27, 2013 4:36 pm

Calling yourself an agnostic catholic is like saying you're a black white.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Tuor » Mon May 27, 2013 4:37 pm

Ya…I'm waiting to see how he justifies it
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby EagleMan » Mon May 27, 2013 4:41 pm

The reason that agnostic and atheist are generally the same in practice, but there are two separate words for them, is for people like Randori, assuming he means it in the way I assume.

Basically by definition then, an agnostic catholic is a person who is a practicing Catholic who is unsure his religion is real, or at the very least, believes that Catholicism cannot be proven.

This is why most agnostics and atheists are actually "agnostic atheists", meaning they do not believe in a God, but they believe it cannot be proven either way. A gnostic atheist is a person who believes that for a fact God (any sort of god) cannot be real, which is a silly position. An agnostic theist is someone who believes in god but thinks that god will generally be unknowable/unprovable.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Tuor » Mon May 27, 2013 4:45 pm

To me, if he's uncertain whether his religion is real, then it seems like he's just be agnostic. Whether he can come to terms with that is a different story.
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Guardian » Mon May 27, 2013 4:50 pm

It'd be an interesting adventure.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby EagleMan » Mon May 27, 2013 4:57 pm

An agnostic theist is invariably going to trend towards one type of god over another. Plus do you really become an agnostic just because you don't 100% believe your religion but you still practice it and maintain a belief in god? I doubt most religious people have 100% faith in their religion, doubt is natural and overcoming it ultimately makes your beliefs stronger than they were before, and there's nothing wrong with doubt and they aren't magically agnostics for it.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Tuor » Mon May 27, 2013 5:00 pm

He hasn't said whether he still believes in god or not, there could be other reasons that he still practices it. For a long time I still "practiced" Anglicanism because of my family.
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Whatis6times9 » Mon May 27, 2013 5:05 pm

Or he could be a lapsed catholic, in that he still believes in god but really doubts the mainstream catholic interpretation of god.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Tuor » Mon May 27, 2013 5:08 pm

Yarr
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Q.U. » Mon May 27, 2013 6:03 pm

Mir@k wrote:Calling yourself an agnostic catholic is like saying you're a black white.


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Nooo, that's ignorant.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Exodis » Mon May 27, 2013 7:24 pm

EagleMan wrote:Basically by definition then, an agnostic catholic is a person who is a practicing Catholic who is unsure his religion is real, or at the very least, believes that Catholicism cannot be proven.

He hit the target.
Basically I believe in God, i still go to church, but I just question a lot where he does exsist or not. Does... that make sense?
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Tuor » Mon May 27, 2013 7:25 pm

...you believe in him but you wonder if he exists?
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Exodis » Mon May 27, 2013 7:29 pm

Well I wonder SOMETIMES whether he exsists or not. I'm an on-and-off agnostic. I know, it's a bit odd.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Tuor » Mon May 27, 2013 7:31 pm

Hmm, I see
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby noxux » Mon May 27, 2013 7:36 pm

It´s funny because many people think god is real and is white but never think that god is black man.
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Tuor » Mon May 27, 2013 7:37 pm

Ya, it's an interesting cultural phenomenon.
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Faith in humanity

Postby Guardian » Mon May 27, 2013 7:41 pm

Randori wrote:Well I wonder SOMETIMES whether he exsists or not. I'm an on-and-off agnostic. I know, it's a bit odd.

It can be normal.
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