日本語の練習

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日本語の練習

Postby Hana » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:05 am

So, I've been studying Japanese pretty hardcore now for a little while. Anyone else doing so? If so, we should practice together.

初めまして。 私は花ですわ。 三十才ですわ。 今まで私は日本語が勉強しません。 でも。。。今、頑張りますわよっ

Apologies if my grammar sucks. I'm still pretty beginner at that. I'm pretty chuffed with my kanji-learning progress, though. I just learned 時代 and had a total epiphany regarding 戦国時代。It was like figuring out a magic trick, I tell you. That and 平安。
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Q.U. » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:19 am

I saw the thread title, and readied the banhammer for a spambot...

It was like figuring out a magic trick

Japan is after all a magical place.
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Hana » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:24 am

Title translation: "Japanese Language Practice" ^_~ にほんごのれんしゅう, for phonetics. Nihongo no renshuu, even though romaji is now the devil to me.

Translation of the magic trick is for the word "jidai" which means period. Composed of the kanji for "time" and "subsitute." I've heard "sengoku jidai" for a bazillion years now. So when I was sounding out the kanji I was like... "Ji...dai...jidai! OMG! JIDAI! Period! Sengoku jidai! Sengoku period!"

Yeah, I amuse easily.

平安 = heian = tranquility
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Tuor » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:26 am

Q.U. wrote:I saw the thread title, and readied the banhammer for a spambot...

I did the same thing, haha.

Hana, I took a class last semester that you probably would have enjoyed. It was on Heian era romantic literature
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Hana » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:35 am

Gods, yes, I totally would have enjoyed it. Do you remember any titles? I doubt I'd be able to read them until like next year, but...It takes forever to ship SAL from Japan, anyway, right?

I picked up some actual raw manga at a convention last month. Imadoki, Samurai Gun, The 5th Grade, and the three Ayashi no Ceres light novels. I was really looking for the K [Project] novels, but they're super hard to find outside of japan, and kinda spendy.

I can read some of Imadoki already. It's the lowest level out of all the titles I've got, but the fact that I can understand any of it is pretty cool to me, considering I only started really studying in January (一月).
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Tuor » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:41 am

Ise monogatari, Ochikubo Monogatari, Genji Monogatari, Heichū Monogatari, Hamamatsu Chūnagon Monogatari, Torikaebaya Monogatari, and Taketori Monogatari
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Hana » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:44 am

Ise and Genji were already on my list, but I shall definitely add the others posthaste! ^_^ ありがとうございます! (Thank you!)
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Tuor » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:49 am

Ochikubo is a cinderella type story, so I imagine you might enjoy that especially. Torikaebaya Monogatari is interesting because it deals with two siblings who are trans-gendered. Taketori Monogatari is kinda more like a fairy tale. Heichū Monogatari is kinda amusing, it deals with the main character and his sometimes hilarious ordeals in wooing woman and correspondance with them.
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Vegedus » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:24 am

Hyakumonogatari kaidankai. I just learned this word.
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Rough Giraffe » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:38 am

I just started my Elementary Japanese course. :(

Isshoni benkyoshitai, demo kanji wa yondekimasen...

I think that's how one would say it...
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Tuor » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:40 am

Kanji is basically what has scared me away from learning Japanese, haha
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Asmodai » Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:52 am

Desu~

I actually have no idea what that means, if it even has a meaning
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Tuor » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:02 am

Desu is a weird word, it mostly just seems to be added to the end sentences to make them more formal, from what I've gathered in my attempts to learn some phrases and being corrected by my girlfriend. But then there's cases like "Nan desu ka?". Or like "Kawaii-desu", which my girlfriend told is how I would say "you are cute", I don't know if she was just oversimplifying it for me or what. Japanese has so many different ways of speaking depending on who you are and who you are talking to, it made my head spin.
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Asmodai » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:15 am

Strange, I never would've figured it was used to make sentences more formal. I always thought it was the complete opposite.
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Tuor » Fri Apr 05, 2013 5:19 am

Well, I imagine it's mostly teenage girls in anime using it? Then they would use it most of the time, unless talking to someone younger, since they're expected to be deferential to elders/guys. I'm guessing
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Rough Giraffe » Fri Apr 05, 2013 6:18 am

Um.

No. It's a multipurpose "to be" verb. They don't use it at the end of every sentence. If I say "boku wa ningen desu" it means "I am human." If I say "Kore wa nan desu ka" it means "What is this?"

Examples where desu wouldn't be used are when there are verbs to replace it, such as "Boku wa hashitte imasu" which means "I am running." That same phrase can also mean "I will run." Context is basically EVERYTHING in Japanese.
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Tuor » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:05 am

It's not always used as a verb, though. Sometimes it's just seems tagged on tot he end of a sentence and the sentence can be said with or with out it, from what I've heard in conversation. Obviously it's not at the end of everything.

As for context
Tuor wrote: Japanese has so many different ways of speaking depending on who you are and who you are talking to, it made my head spin.
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Yog » Fri Apr 05, 2013 7:49 am

Oh hi Hana. Wow, I didn't notice you came back.

How's life? Aside from the whole learning Japanese thing?
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Hiryu » Fri Apr 05, 2013 8:10 am

Man, learn japanese? I had to learn english, is that not good enough for you people?!
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Asmodai » Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:03 am

Oh Japan, who would want this?

Also, do women really talk like that? I'd gouge my ears out if that was really how they spoke (I can tolerate it to a certain point in anime)
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Rough Giraffe » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:32 am

You should watch something else, like a J-drama or some kind of Japanese movie with live action. Look on Crunchyroll.com, they have a bunch of TV shows for free (with commercial interruptions).
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Hana » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:58 am

"Desu" is a copula, but it's also used as a way to jack up the politeness of sentences, typically with an i-adjective.

Let's work with a simple sentence: I am tall.

If I'm saying it politely (i.e., not amongst friends I'm super-casual with,) I would structure it rigidly with all parts of speech and the more formal version of the feminine "I' - Watakushi wa takai desu.

To make this negative, we change not the desu at the end (normally, we would change desu to ja'arimasen), but the adjective takai - Watakushi wa takakunai desu.

If I were hanging out with only my friends, not worried about offending anyone, then I could (assuming I've established myself as the subject already) drop a whole bunch of sentence parts and basically end up with: Takakunai.

And then, if I want it to sound soft and feminine, add a 'wa' sound to it. Or if I'm searching for agreement, like "I'm not tall, am I?" I'd add a yone or a wane to the end. Or if I want a "I wonder if I'm not tall?" feeling, I'd use kashira at the end. But those are because I'm female. Guys would use different sentence enders or the neutral ones...as male sentence enders are mostly casual or kind of rude.

As for the super-kawaii talking you hear for girls (mostly in anime), no...real people don't usually talk like that. It's a thing in Japan. They LOVE cute things, so they over-cute-ify EVERYTHING. Real women can't even compete.

Kanji wa...Well, as for kanji, it's actually a LOT simpler than you'd think, if you go about it the right way. Instead of looking at it from a stroke order perspective, learn the radicals with mnemonics. Like I said, I started in late January, and I already know this many kanji at varying levels of memorization (The colored ones. This is a standardized list of kanji someone decided everyone need to know):

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After only a few months, I am beginning to understand low-level manga...and the system gives me the tools to look up things that I haven't already learned, too.

For those that are willing to shell out the money, it's $80 a year for a subscription at http://www.WaniKani.com($50 a year if you're a member of http://www.Textfugu.com)
You can do the first two levels free. Lower levels are slower to start, but it builds an important foundation, and if you take it slow and make sure you get everything right, you can level up every 8 days.

The first step, really, though, is to learn hiragana. Seriously, being daunted by hiragana was what kept me from really learning Japanese for TEN YEARS. And when I knuckled down, I learned all of it in only two days.
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Glacial Expanse » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:27 pm

I take three years of Japanese and I know absolutely NOTHING.

That's high school Japanese classes for me! Now I'm too lazy to practice it but I'm one heck of a speaker.
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Hana » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:33 pm

If anyone doesn't know hiragana yet, I highly suggest downloading the ebook Hiragana 42. It's free.
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Re: 日本語の練習

Postby Mathias » Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:38 pm

Vegedus wrote:Hyakumonogatari kaidankai. I just learned this word.

That's a book of ghost stories, if I'm not mistaken. Or a game.
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