Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept This topic is under Mod protection

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Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept  This topic is under Mod protection

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:02 pm

Hello all, Warbear here. I'd like to take a moment of your time to talk to you about ~*~*~gender~*~*~

I have no explicitly stated it here, except for two posts in the therapy thread, but I am agender, which means my perception of myself does not align with either male or female traits.

BUT WARBEAR,

you might say

DO YOU NOT HAVE GENITALS?

that's a fairly common misconception, actually. what you are referring to is "sex", which means either male or female depending on your genitalia.

gender is more of a loose concept, differing from person to person. people who don't identify as a gender that aligns with their sex are called "transgender." people who identify as neither (agender), both (genderfluid), or varying levels of each are known as "non-binary" which means they don't fit into the gender binary, male being 1 and female being 0.

depending on the person, they will have preferred pronouns (he, she, they, and there's a bunch of others).

in my specific case, I prefer neutral pronouns, meaning "they" or "them", but it's best to use neutral pronouns unless a person has specifically stated their gender! misgendering someone can be a bit hurtful to a person.

so, tl;dr, call me they and not he, shitbirds.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Creppy Eggy » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:05 pm

I feel educated.
As I saw the creature, I was as white as an egg. I was so scared I might crack from fear. As the humanoid began to lunge after me, I was walking on egg shells from how scared I was. It grabbed me, took me to its station, and cracked me open. The last thing I saw were my yellow insides cooked on a pan. Human nature is as evil as a rotten egg.


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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Yog-Sothoth » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:11 pm

I used to think to that gender and sex were synonyms.

I was a giant idiot.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:12 pm

yes you were.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Tuor » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:14 pm

I used to too, until I took anthropology courses
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Haru the Witch » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:44 pm

i learned about gender and sex being separate back in middle school
because i had a friend who was gender fluid
they explained it all to me, broadened my knowledge of gender
and it's well to be educated as to not offend someone
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:59 pm

fun-fact for all who might be new to this: it's also commonly unacceptable to misgender people in s private chat! always refer to them by their preferred pronouns!
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:02 am

even if they're not around!

*throws glitter everywhere*
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby ULTRADJWEEN » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:52 am

So basically, this is a fancy way of telling us you're a tranny, no? XD

(please don't kick my ass for this)
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:53 am

You're a fucking moron
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 12:55 am

no. a TRANSEXUAL is a person who goes through the effort of changing their genitals and outward appearance, as well as their internal biology.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Hiroko » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:09 am

"Tranny" is a transphobic slur, ULTRADJ.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby ULTRADJWEEN » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:12 am

Well, if you want to be called "they", fine by me. I just saw I thread at 1:00 in the morning and felt like posting out of boredom.

Hiroko wrote:"Tranny" is a transphobic slur, ULTRADJ.


It is? Huh, never knew it was used as a bad way of generalization before. Like anything, I just thought it was just a word to use.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:13 am

it's a fairly serious topic though, pal.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Hiroko » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:24 am

That's why it's important to try to learn about that sort of thing, ULTRADJ. Because many people are like that, using words and doing things that they don't realize are problematic or hurtful and contribute to the dehumanization and oppression of groups like this.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Creppy Eggy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:30 am

Boy, what is wrong with you? This is a pretty serious topic. Warb looks like he's playing around but talking about stuff like that is crossing the line.
It's a good thing this thread was made so people like you would know better. I'm not saying it in spite, I'm saying you need to know better.
As I saw the creature, I was as white as an egg. I was so scared I might crack from fear. As the humanoid began to lunge after me, I was walking on egg shells from how scared I was. It grabbed me, took me to its station, and cracked me open. The last thing I saw were my yellow insides cooked on a pan. Human nature is as evil as a rotten egg.


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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:39 am

they, Exo.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:39 am

or in this case, they're.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby ULTRADJWEEN » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:43 am

Then go start educating other people if you feel so strongly about it.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:44 am

that's why we're here~
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby BeeAre » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:01 am

Hmmm... I disagree with some of the terminology used in this thread, and the perceived validity that is being insisted as a requirement.

I would begin with a relatively innocent question: when we discuss gender like this, at what point are we going to consider neurological science and the impacts that perspective might have on cognition?

This is important specifically when we view cognition as a physical process. :0)

Cognition is the process of thinking, and so all thought-driven concepts, including gender, fall under its purview.

Most people do not completely detach gender from physicality. Our bodies are not unphysical yet, and so we frame our language around the practicality when using those bodies.

As a consequence, it seems to me unreasonable to insist on teaching people about this idea as if it were important to a lot of people. It is a minority view in the extreme. I will discuss this at length to clarify my position.

Now, come to think of it, the reason it seems unreasonable is because it looks to me outright irresponsible and reckless to insist upon distancing yourself from a huge amount of research that seems like it could be extremely relevant to the discussion.

Now, before I am attacked for not valuing the worth of the concept independently, I want to say outright: I appreciate the intellectual concept and can even accept practical consequences arising from it! I wouldn't dream of being mean to someone who feels an emotional resonance with the discussed concepts!

However, I have yet to understand the necessity to conform to the standards of this concept as a new normative given the current statistical incidence and the overwhelming impracticality it introduces to our framing. It remains mostly impractical to assume the "non-physical" nature of gender unless someone is measurably concerned with that very concept.

Given the statistical incidence, I might assert that in fact, there are a lot of purely physical reasons one might psychologically value the concept as it stands today, despite said statistical incidence.

Is it wrong, then, for me to be hesitant to refrain in my natural compartmentalization of this issue? Or if not this issue, then more specifically the way it is being framed in this thread.

It seems useful to me to keep the issue relegated to unimportance in society, to the point of not giving much of a care about someone's personal pronouns as being different from the statistical normative at all UNTIL they point out to me their specific preference? Would you really consider that to be an insensitivity on my part, given my knowledge of the way the issue is framed by the statistical normative?

Keep in mind that I consistently use "statistical normative" as a way to describe a LACK of preference more than a specific preference: most people don't have an opinion on the issue because the issue has never occurred to them. It's not wrong for them to not know about the issue, nor is it oppressive of them.

Certainly, when people are given the full breadth of the issue, from a strictly logical progression, they generally come to a stair-step conclusion: If it is a truly necessary concept that needs exploring -- which in a logical progression we can create sheer non-trivial hypotheticals to validate "existence proofs", if you will, of the concept of the non-physical gender -- then the people who find the concept necessary simply must and so will perpetuate this concept.

This is true even if, in the minds of people pursuant of the statistical normative, those pursuant of the circumstances espoused in the exploration of the concept of the non-physical gender are recognized by the first group as statistical outliers (which is a gentle framing, but still accurate).

No, I think discounting the idea that cognition is inevitably intertwined with the physical body is currently beyond the framework for our ideas regarding the functionality of the brain as a physical organ.

Therefore, I will accept the current function of the idea of non-physical gender as being an extremely small minority, capable of asserting its validity ultimately, but not yet anywhere near terms that require major shifts in sociological interaction between groups espousing the ideas and those not espousing the ideas.

It isn't (and it will remain that way for a relatively long time) rude to assume people use the pronouns "he" or "she". I will cede that if someone does prefer something else, they have every right to want that identification from others for self-validation. I will say nothing as to the methods for securing that want, currently.

Those that appreciate the concept should, by all means, pursue the idea to its fullest, but they should not be surprised when that pursuit requires regular effort on their part to discuss the idea when the statistical likelihood of a person they are conversing with is to not expect the issue in the first place.

This is not a useful education for general audiences. This is specialist material, and I would argue it would be better to remain specialist material for a while, to hold down misconceptions in general audiences with incorrectly parsed information. In metaphorical terms: be careful, o ministers, that you don't use the wrong bible verses when you proselytize, or your values might not be properly instilled according to the Word.

No, as long as we have bodies that produce hormones at all, there will be an inevitable chemical role those bodies will play on our perception of gender, and it is not unreasonable at all to use those bodies as a basis for how we frame our language. A basis, mind you.

I look forward to a response. :0)
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Tuor » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:12 am

Holy wall of text…
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:14 am

I'm not going into this with you again, BR. sorry.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:21 am

the thing I don't quite grasp is why you find these things invalid simply because these people are a statistical minority. it might not be important to you but it's important to that minority and I would ask that you try to understand and accept that. that is all I have to say on the matter.
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Re: Introduction to Gender as a Non-Physical Concept

Postby Panty Anarchy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:23 am

and the whole reason this thread exists is because I wanted to put forth the effort to explain this situation to the members of the community that I've been a part of for nearing on seven years.
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