Weekly discussion 24 (1/13/13-1/20/13): $1 trillion coin

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Re: Weekly discussion 22 (8/1-8/8): The most important question

Postby Valhallen » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:12 pm

Weekly Discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

In the right corner, we have Willard "Mittens" Romney backed by Paul "The Budgeter" Ryan. They face the incumbents in the left corner, Barack "The Dictator" Obama and his VP Joe "Robo-Bore" Biden.

Since Romney has picked his running mate, the US presidential election looks to be pretty much shaped up. Will it be the biggest, most expensive, most negative campaign in US history? Will there be hilarious shenanigans? Time will tell, but let's speculate from this starting point. Politics, policies, etc. are fair game, but only as they relate to the presidential election.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Whatis6times9 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:24 pm

It's looking like 2008 again.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby NeoWarrior7 » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:44 pm

Against clowns like these, I like the odds.
Let's for 4 more years. We gotta hit them hard, and show 'em we're not backing down from conservative bullshit.

Kinda on the subject of Politics, anyone else seen The Campaign, yet? Pretty good movie. Mostly a comedy, but with a good message on modern politics.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Tuor » Sun Aug 12, 2012 9:59 pm

I saw the trailer when I went to go see Ted a few weeks ago, looks pretty funny.
"Suddenly Frodo noticed that a strange-looking weather-beaten man, sitting in the shadows near the wall, was also listening intently to the hobbit-talk. He had a tall tankard in front of him, and was smoking a long-stemmed pipe curiously carved. His legs were stretched out before him, showing high boots of supple leather that fitted him well, but had seen much wear and were now caked with mud. A travel-stained cloak of heavy dark-green cloth was drawn close about him, and in spite of the heat of the room he wore a hood that overshadowed his face; but the gleam of his eyes could be seen as he watched the hobbits."
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Q.U. » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:08 am

Obama will win.

Right wing will smear him.

Senseless fear will arise through misinformation.

Slow climb out of the depression.

Another variation of tea party protesting Obama's socialist agenda.

4 years later there will still be deficit.


That's all.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Vegedus » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:03 am

As a European, I only get my impressions of American politics through reddit and John Stewart, both of whom are liberal as fuck. Still, it does seem like Obama's odds are quite good, despite the last four years being nothing people complaining about their socialist/communist president.

Also.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Musicmac » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:31 am

Different country, don't really care.

Although I do hope Obama gets a win, I'm slightly more hopeful on his plans than for the Republican side. This is assuming the stuff I read on local paper is ensured to be properly reported for once.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Q.U. » Mon Aug 13, 2012 12:34 pm

By the way, enjoy this one. Ruff is gonna love it.

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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Valhallen » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:17 pm

Loool. That's from the same guy who did the "One Nation Under God" painting. Interesting views on history and politics. Like, going off that painting you might get the impression that Old Hickory's policies were more beneficial to out of work dudes than FDR's. Still, such views influence a lot of the dialogue these days, so we'll be seeing more in the coming months.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Vegedus » Mon Aug 13, 2012 6:28 pm

THINK OF THE CONSTITUTION! WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK OF THE CONSTITUTION!

Ugh, that guy. I think the American constitution is pretty overrated. Should spend more time thinking about what kinda free country you would want, less about how some 300-year old document worded it exactly.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Q.U. » Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:44 pm

So, who wants to bet that this guy watches Fox News every day?
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Musicmac » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:59 am

I liked the colors and the life-like figures.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Rough Giraffe » Tue Aug 14, 2012 7:55 pm

Q.U. wrote:By the way, enjoy this one. Ruff is gonna love it.Image
I do love it. Seriously, it's very well-done. Lovely artwork and a strongly conservative message behind it. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Valhallen » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:12 pm

How would you interpret its symbolism as a strongly conservative message?
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby EagleMan » Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:18 pm

Well, if we take it for granted that only conservatives love the Constitution, then that's how it is.

Otherwise interpreting it strictly without that context, it's Obama stepping all over the Constitution, but that does not necessarily reflect on liberals or conservatives, but the common way the right promotes itself is that it is a defender of the constitution, implying that liberals can't staunchly uphold it as well. You could just as easily have Bush there as well.

If I said the Under God painting without context, since when I first saw it two weeks ago I assumed it was meant to be satirical, and now I've seen this painting as well, I would assume the man to be a civil libertarian of some sort if I didn't know anymore.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby NeoWarrior7 » Tue Aug 14, 2012 9:59 pm

Oh yeah, you guys haven't seen him before?
He's done, like a LOT of paintings. Pretty much entirely conservative viewpoints in them. Very nice work besides the content, though.

In fact, hasn't that EXACT one been on this forum before?
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby DaCrum » Wed Aug 15, 2012 1:34 am

First of all, I can't even tell that's the Constitution, and Obama hasn't even noticed. Although Washington's look of "Obama, what the hell!" is priceless.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Rough Giraffe » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:55 am

Valhallen wrote:How would you interpret its symbolism as a strongly conservative message?
What, really? You can't see that?

Okay. Take a look at the picture, starting from the left side. The picture is arranged from stage left (political Right/fiscal or political conservative) to stage right (political Left/Liberal or Progressive). Notice how most of the non-moderate democrats are facing away from the right, and many are applauding TO the left. Notice further how Pres. Bush (Right-Wing Progressive) is pointing towards the Right, wanting to go to that side, but being caught up in his Progressive politics and therefore feels he cannot leave his side.

The founding fathers and a lot of famous political and fiscal conservatives are around a park bench, holding their hands in concern for the man on the park bench, who appears to be either a college student or a jobless adult. That man will be burdened by the policies of excessive spending that have accumulated over the years, doomed to pay off the debt for the rest of his taxable life. The others around him have expressions that read "Look what you've done to this man," which is a clear indicator that they are upset as to the state of affairs that have gotten us to this point. Notice the money scattered around the ground; this is money that the man cannot use, as evidenced by why we don't see him reaching for it.

Pres. Obama is clearly standing on what appears to be the Constitution, and is blatantly ignoring Pres. Washington as he tries to bring it to his attention (note: The only reason Washington would care that Obama was stepping on the paper is if it was gravely important, and this means it can ONLY BE the Constitution). This shows that Obama does not care about the Rule Of Law in America, which IS the Constitution, or it should be, as it is the first written law of the nation.

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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Musicmac » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:51 am

The money has been explained to represent the inflation of the US dollar over the course of history, which is pretty close to what Ruff said, as is everything else.

[quote='DaCrum']
Although Washington's look of "Obama, what the hell!" is priceless.
[/quote]
"Dafuq bro, why you step on my paper"
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby NeoWarrior7 » Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:57 pm

Saw a funny editorial picture in the local paper. TV screen with Romney picking Ryan as his VP candidate, and the guy in a chair watching saying that Romney's hidden tax returns must show he's taking money from the Democrats. I laughed.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Valhallen » Wed Aug 15, 2012 6:23 pm

RuffDraft wrote:
Valhallen wrote:How would you interpret its symbolism as a strongly conservative message?
What, really? You can't see that?
I can, but "conservative" has a lot of meanings these days, some of them rather far from the basic meaning of desiring to protect the status quo. For example, the guy who painted that could be described as a libertarian and religious fundamentalist. I wanted to hear what it meant to you.

RuffDraft wrote:Okay. Take a look at the picture, starting from the left side. The picture is arranged from stage left (political Right/fiscal or political conservative) to stage right (political Left/Liberal or Progressive).
Dubious. Do you think that the price-setting, EPA-starting Nixon is to the right of tax-cutting, government-shrinking Obama? Or that dictatorial, society-overthrowing Lincoln should be over there? The painter's explanation (mouse over to see explanations of different parts) emphasizes more how he thinks they helped "the forgotten man" on the bench, which seems to correlate with but not quite follow a left-right spectrum.

RuffDraft wrote:Notice how most of the non-moderate democrats are facing away from the right, and many are applauding TO the left. Notice further how Pres. Bush (Right-Wing Progressive) is pointing towards the Right, wanting to go to that side, but being caught up in his Progressive politics and therefore feels he cannot leave his side.
How do you consider Bush to be Progressive? Consider how the Progressive Caucus's budget contrasts with Bush's policies.

RuffDraft wrote:The founding fathers and a lot of famous political and fiscal conservatives are around a park bench, holding their hands in concern for the man on the park bench, who appears to be either a college student or a jobless adult. That man will be burdened by the policies of excessive spending that have accumulated over the years, doomed to pay off the debt for the rest of his taxable life. The others around him have expressions that read "Look what you've done to this man," which is a clear indicator that they are upset as to the state of affairs that have gotten us to this point.
So they're upset at the insufficiency of regulation in the financial system? I could see some of them acknowledging its usefulness, like Hamilton, but the present economy and regulatory system is very different from what any of them actually dealt with. And they had just racked up a huge debt to pay for what they considered to be a worthy cause (the Revolution) and resolved to pay it off with government revenue.

RuffDraft wrote:Notice the money scattered around the ground; this is money that the man cannot use, as evidenced by why we don't see him reaching for it.
Each dollar on the ground has its own note which says something of the painter's ideas relating to monetary and fiscal policy.

RuffDraft wrote:Pres. Obama is clearly standing on what appears to be the Constitution, and is blatantly ignoring Pres. Washington as he tries to bring it to his attention (note: The only reason Washington would care that Obama was stepping on the paper is if it was gravely important, and this means it can ONLY BE the Constitution).
Most of the Constitution, at least. A number of Amendments are scattered about. Also, Washington had high regard for Congressional laws, using them to guide his actions in the Whiskey Rebellion, for example.

RuffDraft wrote:This shows that Obama does not care about the Rule Of Law in America, which IS the Constitution, or it should be, as it is the first written law of the nation.
What about the Articles of Confederation? Also, the Constitution doesn't say much about the day to day actions of the government, which is mostly covered by acts of Congress.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby DaCrum » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:46 am

Actually, examining Obama's face, it really looks like someone said something to upset him. Considering Nixon's face, it was something he said. And considering the applause from Clinton, LBJ and Roosevelt, it was a particularly good burn, probably about how few people Obama's sexed up.
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Valhallen » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:11 am

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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Valhallen » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:22 am

All right, if no one else will say it, I will: Should this election come down to dog policy?
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Re: Weekly discussion 23 (8/12-8/19): Rumble on the Potomac

Postby Musicmac » Fri Aug 17, 2012 11:31 am

What in the world is dog policy, and I severely hope that the answer is not about dog ownership.
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