Weekly discussion 24 (1/13/13-1/20/13): $1 trillion coin

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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Mathias » Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:11 pm

I'm not smart enough to get it.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Q.U. » Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:39 pm

I think I get it, but I'm not sure.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby BeeAre » Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:34 pm

Bob the Angry Flower is a very social progressive liberal comic by Steven Notley.

I really enjoyed "Atlas Shrugged 2", myself.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby DaCrum » Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:30 pm

Why thank you BR for making me look that up.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Icha » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:02 pm

Damn, here I am making fun of political cartoons for being too blatant with their labeling and such, and here I am again, but now I don't get it.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby BeeAre » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:23 pm

well see the idea is that bob the angry flower ironically is the actual one responsible for most things that are in the author's opinion terrible, so the author demonstrates his contempt by having Bob being fervently enthusiastic about these things
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Valhallen » Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:00 pm

So, any thoughts on actual political discourse? As in revolutionary rhetoric, the shooting, accusations, counter-accusations, etc.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby BeeAre » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:18 pm

well, in the vein of bob the angry flower and other politically charged satirists, including colbert and occasionally stewart, it is better to aggressively deride the logical inconsistencies of an opponent than their beliefs (except for the outrageously and obviously taboo, nothing so simple as a cultural or lifestyle based choice, like you know murdering people).

being able to discuss the policy choices as efficient vs the idealogically based screaming with no regards for whether or not something is realistic with resources is the dangerous thing

in clip after clip after clip, arguments are made and ignored by a lot of the media in exchange for yelling and being sensationalist. fox news is not the only network that does it but they do it most obviously and thus they control the speed with which the bar of averages is maintained.

since they readily are willing to plunge into assuming that any opposition to them are literally evil in their eyes, this creates such a bad air for engagement that anyone looking to engage have to reassess how to even begin to do so. :[
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:41 pm

This coming from a guy who thinks that most Conservatives and rich people are evil?
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby BeeAre » Sat Jan 22, 2011 7:54 pm

RuffDraft wrote:This coming from a guy who thinks that most Conservatives and rich people are evil?


i don't think most conservatives are evil

and you and i have different terms for what rich means i think lol :)

there are what? like less than 1000 TRULY rich people in the world, and most of them yeah consistently engage in a lot of terrible things, but it is hard to pin down a lot of them as evil, you know i also believe that too. :)
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:14 pm

Well, no, first of all there are a lot more than just 1000 "truly" rich people, though it's vague as to what you consider "truly" rich. Consider congress. Each person in congress is making at least $174,000 a year, and that's just a basic salary. This by no means making them rich, but they are quite wealthy; quite a few of those in office own large businesses. Now consider the sheer number of corporations--Microsoft, Intel, AT&T, Domino's Pizza, Dole Foods, Hasbro... the list goes on. And now consider how many executives make up the whole of each of those companies. People making more than $250,000/yr can be considered rich (as per how congress levies taxes), although I think you're defining them as people making more than $1,000,000/yr, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Second of all, you have, on more than one occasion gotten angry at me for using a Conservative stance, and when you have calmed down, explain that it's not me you're getting angry at, but rather the Conservative view itself. You tell me on a regular basis that Conservatives just want the rich to get richer, and then you tell me that rich people are evil. How else am I to interpret your sentiment?
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby BeeAre » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:47 pm

i had a huge post here about to go, but i deleted it. this is not the place.

suffice it to say you don't argue specifically enough for me to exercise much discipline, and that i've actually gone out of my way to say things that disclaimer my statements as not being actually against the whole of conservatism or rich people.

we even had a huge discussion in which i explained that i worry about the rich because they definitively have the capacity for as great an injury that they create as they create good.

but let me be specific about my definition as a concession for you: I consider one hundred million to a billion a year in either personal income or total assets in control of moving if not able to be personally indulged in... to be RICH.

i am not going to get wrangled into an argument with you about ME, because that's not the thing we're discussing. You can attack ME elsewhere. Right now, I'm explaining how definitively, Fox News and MSNBC and the majority of American Media has been the major attacker of rhetorical civility because they are ready to villify people without talking to them. Let me lay your fears to rest: I will not villify someone OR THE WHOLE OF THEIR IDEOLOGY willing to talk to me (including you, since I like to talk to you), which is what Fox News, MSNBC, etc have the opportunity to do with so many politicians, DIRECTLY TALK TO THEM, and then these media outlets waste these opportunities by villifying them and all they stand for rather than have any real sort of dialogue.

satirists do a better job these days because it seems, to be funny, they HAVE to attack logical consistency in policy moves in order to retain their audience.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:49 pm

BeeAre wrote:but let me be specific about my definition as a concession for you: I consider one hundred million to a billion a year in either personal income or total assets in control of moving if not able to be personally indulged in... to be RICH.

Wait. No. Hell no. So everything below $100 million is a small business? Everyone between $1,000,000 and $99,999,999 is poor? Where do you draw the line?

BeeAre wrote:i am not going to get wrangled into an argument with you about ME, because that's not the thing we're discussing. You can attack ME elsewhere.
Good lord, man! Who's attacking you? I don't go out of my way to insult you in these discussions, and it boggles me as to how you can even think that. If I call you out on what I think is a misinformed idea, why does that automatically make it an insult?

See, I'm not attacking you, I'm attacking the absurdity of your statement. Do you see the difference?


BeeAre wrote:Fox News and MSNBC and the majority of American Media has been the major attacker of rhetorical civility because they are ready to villify people without talking to them.
It's hard to take that idea seriously. I can villify someone without ever speaking to them because I know them to be sinister or whatever.

Martha Stewart was convicted of insider trading. To use one's knowledge of one's own company to profit off her own stock downfall is nothing short of devious.

George Soros profited about $1 billion (that's $ 1 , 0 0 0 , 0 0 0 , 0 0 0, btw) off the downfall of the British Pound in 1992. And this very same man is now targeting America. Jesus fucking Christ.

Mass murderer Jeffery Dhamer. 'Nuff said.

Do you see my point?


BeeAre wrote:Let me lay your fears to rest:
*Blink* Fears?
BeeAre wrote:I will not villify someone OR THE WHOLE OF THEIR IDEOLOGY willing to talk to me (including you, since I like to talk to you), which is what Fox News, MSNBC, etc have the opportunity to do with so many politicians, DIRECTLY TALK TO THEM, and then these media outlets waste these opportunities by villifying them and all they stand for rather than have any real sort of dialogue.
But didn't you just say that they villify people without talking to them? Are they not talking to them to their faces? (lol)

Jokes aside, the fact that one news group (doesn't matter who they are) might villify someone without talking to them doesn't mean they're wrong. Hell, I'll even give that to MSNBC, despite all the ridiculous comments I've heard their commentators make. (I have examples, but they're not relevant. Ask me later.)

Please don't think I'm trying to insult or villify you by rebutting to your claim. I don't know if you think that's what I'm doing, but you shouldn't get so angry when I say things that aren't an outright insult, because that's never how I intend it.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby BeeAre » Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:53 pm

o_o

okay i will literally ignore everything here except to emphasize my point as it pertains to this discussion: difference between you and the media: you don't have the opportunity to speak to the people in charge of making policy decisions, and they do. that's the line i was drawing.

they have a professional responsibility to not villify people when reporting about them. That is what journalism is supposed to do.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:33 pm

Ah, so you were simply referring to journalists, and not people. Got it.

I don't know, though... I watching FoxNews for a few hours on my boat, and though the time difference did not allow me to see Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity, it seemed that those who were on did not simply try to villify the opponent when they had a liberal speaker on... the host gave him more time than the conservative side and stopped one of the others from interrupting him. Are you sure you're watching the right channel?

...lol...
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby DaCrum » Sat Jan 22, 2011 10:41 pm

Funny you mention the downfall of the British Pound Sterling, yet it is one of the more powerful currencies out there right now. How did Soros benefit off that?
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:50 pm

You know, I would love to research that for you, but it would take high-speed internet to do it quickly, which on a ship is more equivalent to 56k.

Why don't you just look up "Black Friday" and go from there?
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby DaCrum » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:59 pm

Because I'm trying to find out a conspiracy, that, quite frankly, is schizophrenic at worst and humorous at best. Plus, it would interest me how someone profits off of money losing value.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:14 am

That's not how you use "schizophrenic."

Also, I mistakenly wrote "Black Friday" when what I meant was "Black Wednesday." Please excuse my Freudian slip. If you'll give me a little time, I'll write up an explanation as to how that works.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby DaCrum » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:33 am

It is how I use schizophrenic. His ideas are schizophrenic. Crazy, insane, not based in reality.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:51 am

I'll leave that one alone.

Anyway, basically what Soros did was short-sell Sterling. Short-selling is a kind of reverse trading. When you trade you buy a hard asset, be it a stock, a coin, a baseball card or whatever, and hope the value goes up. In short selling, you are selling borrowed assets with the intention of paying back the lender, the one you borrowed your assets from. In the case of short-selling, you hope that the price goes down so that when you pay back your lender, you make a profit. It's difficult for me to fully explore the details of what and how (I'm not a financial expert), but that's essentially how it works.

But Soros went short, as they say, so heavily that he made approximately $1 billion. The whole thing cost the United Kingdom about £3.3 billion.

I don't have access to YouTube right now so I can't show you Soros talking about it, but I can find a quote in which he says, "The United States must stop resisting the orderly decline of the Dollar, the coming Global Currency and the New World Order."

Soros sees America as a threat and wants it and everything it stands for destroyed. This man is not to be trusted. If you knew what this man is, and what he stands for, you wouldn't be calling it a conspiracy theory.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby DaCrum » Sun Jan 23, 2011 2:21 am

I'm thinking you're right. Halfway. Then you get into NWO bullshit and frankly I'm not a fan of wrestling.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby DaCrum » Sun Jan 23, 2011 3:12 am

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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sun Jan 23, 2011 4:47 am

Uh... I'm not trying to sound rude or crass here, but are you agreeing with me, or just being snide? This is the internet; sarcasm isn't interpreted very well.

Soros is not talking about wrestling. He's talking about an extreme Socialist "World Government" with a global currency that everyone in the world is governed and controlled by. You know all those examples I present that you say are unfair and don't represent "real" Socialism (etc.)? That's what he wants, but worldwide.

You probably don't know much about his background. Originally a Hungarian Jew (George Schwartz), he grew up during Nazi Germany. His family pretended to be Christian in order to escape death, and the Nazis made young Soros go to his Jewish neighbors as a courier, and evict them from their homes. So he grew up in very unfavorable conditions.

But he doesn't feel bad about this. In at least two television appearances (1994 and 1998), he has said that he feels no guilt over having evicted his Jewish neighbors, or over the extermination of nearly a half million of his fellow Hungarian Jews. In the introduction of one of his books, he wrote: "It is a sacreligious thing to say, but these ten months [of the Nazi occupation] were the happiest times of my life… We led an adventurous life and we had fun together." He's also said, "I don't deny the Jews right to a national existence--but I don't want to be a part of it."

This man is the 28th richest person in America. He is dangerous, and an anti-semite... And yet no one I talk to knows anything about him.
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Re: Weekly discussion (1/19-1/26): Those fascist commie traitors

Postby BeeAre » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:36 am

i waile upon a mightye axe withe a tyune that doth seek the favour of the Viking God of Rock to cometh forth and with difyne accuracy lay ye waste o'er the lande as ye will

Fromme the cusp of mine lips i doth impart a decree told unto this thread:

None may post sayve for the Viking God of Rock and hitherto the knave RuffDraft.

Thus spaik ye herald of the Gods, and moderatorre of thy threyds.

No seriously, and I mean it, no one interfere. A real debate.
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