the many expressions of Red

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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby slander » Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:42 pm

Eh, I don't really look at the details.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Blood Lord » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:09 pm

....As anybody noticed there's a Google Adsense Bot lurking around the forum all the time?

Yeah. There have been quite a bit of bots floating around lately.

I'm learning a lot of stuff here about EA.

Please continue.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby PCHK » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:35 pm

Well, Crooked is probably up to more than even Humpty Dumpty knows, Cricket might be in on it or at least have some inkling of what Crooked's end game is, but Big Bad is probably the "final boss"....
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Blood Lord » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:35 pm

...I need to go re-read Ever After.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby PCHK » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:36 pm

....Me too.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Tornado Wolf » Sat Apr 18, 2009 9:23 pm

Blood Lord wrote:...I need to go re-read Ever After.

I'm not sure how much of what I've said so far comes from the actual comic as currently posted, and how much comes from reading the comments at DeviantArt and such. It'll be GREAT when the whole story is on the pages rather than "All There In The Manual."


As to the guards that Red killed , I want to remind everyone that they were somehow revived by Dr. Crooked. His wizardy apparently allows for one HELL of a health plan. (I wonder how good the dental is?)

And there's no chance that the investors have any idea that Red is in the Asylum, or that she even exists. Because allowing the investors any sort of knowledge to that extent is a threat to the Asylum's money. Humpty will show them everything but the Doctor's secret projects.

The violent inmates he was about to show them? Not all of them are going to have problems that the Doctor will be experimenting on. Probably, many of them have relative run-of-the-mill issues.


On that note, why would the Doctor be interested in Goldi?

He's interested in Red because she's connected to the Big Bad Wolf problem. He would not be interested in Goldi's problem unless he could learn something from studying her.

Not all inmates at the Asylum are going to have problems that interest the Doctor. Pinnocchio is allowed to wander free, so apparently there's nothing interesting in a living, wooden puppet. So perhaps being haunted by the ghosts of three bears is also nothing very interesting.

It's a different world, with different norms and different mysteries.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby PCHK » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:27 pm

We don't know enough about Goldi to assume there's nothing interesting that Crooked will want to know about her. And while you're talking about Pinnochio, there's kinda the fact that the asylum is owned by an egg. Yeeeaaahhhhh....

Also in regards to the people who all died, there's also a chance that they might be weird people that Crooked engineered to be like puppets and thus easy to put back together? Judging by the security, they've probably got a lot of violent inmates and it might be hard to keep the staff, if you know what I mean. So that's a thought.

We also don't know what Crooked's endgame is so we can't assume the Big Bad Wolf problem is his only concern (though we can probably put it in a good high place on his list of priorities). Also, while I know Endzone was non-canon, he did bring in all those people and then say his goal was "to learn". So maybe he's just interesting in knowledge of any kind?
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Tornado Wolf » Sat Apr 18, 2009 10:40 pm

I didn't mean to deny the possibility that Crooked was interested in her issues. But whatever his interest, it doesn't seem to involve top-secret experiments, otherwise she'd be in more isolated confinement.

And of course Crooked's purpose is to learn. He's a mad scientist. They all want to learn.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby PCHK » Sat Apr 18, 2009 11:12 pm

Hmmm, possibly. But you never know with crazy scientists. They're always up to stuff. They did put her in that weird runic room because she was a more curious case and they wanted less restricted observation. She is also a pretty face, though.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Tornado Wolf » Sun Apr 19, 2009 12:00 am

It could be that their primary business is Grimm extraction, whatever that is or does.

In Red's case, the "intensity of the Grimm leaving her body" is very harmful, or at least harmfully taxing. Maybe extraction isn't always so?

If there is Grimm inside Goldi, perhaps its intensity is so low (or they extract it gently enough) that she isn't adversely affected, and so she doesn't realize anything is odd.

Well, too many unanswered questions to know for sure.


But I looked at page 23 again, and was surprised to learn that it wasn't the Wolf telling Red to give into her rage. It was the Doctor that told her to find her sword, and the Doctor that convinced her to go berserk and kill.

Previously, I thought the sword somehow came from the Wolf and whatever he did to her. Now I wonder if it didn't come entirely from Crooked.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Tragedy_and_Comedy » Sun Apr 19, 2009 9:04 am

Or they remove it in such a was that it makes her as daffy as she seems.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Tornado Wolf » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:08 am

I hadn't thought of that, TaC.

Interpreting half-understood dialogue up to this point, the Doctor may be claiming that their "rehabilitation efforts" (which may or may not be the extraction process) is actually increasing Red's superhuman strength.

Either Grimm makes you weaker (in some regard) such that having it extracted removes its inhibiting factor; or Grimm IS strength, and having it extracted forces one to make more of it than before and thus become stronger (in some regard).

Perhaps Goldi's bears aren't ghosts, but manifestations of some personal power. Perhaps the extraction process is making that power stronger.


Alternatively, the Doctor is just saying that Red is actually getting psychologically healthier through the process, the process is improving in not creating such a strain during extraction, and she herself is getting better at recovering from the extraction.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby PCHK » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:33 am

I'm thinking that Grimm is probably something dark and evil or something, and thus when Red goes batshit crazy on everyone she's generating Grimm, which they then extract for some reason. If Grimm really is evil then having it extracted probably makes you better. That could be wrong, of course. That would mean extracting it from Goldi and keeping her in an environment where she doesn't generate more would make her better, but then again, we don't know if Goldi is going for Grimm extraction or if she's really just going for a psych evaluation. Cricket does seem to have the ability to dig deep into a person's subconscious.

Also I'm pretty sure Red is crazy in general from her encounter with Big Bad, Cricket's statements seem to point to that when he says something like 'talking to her has been impossible since day one' or something. If Grimm really is some malicious force then generating it, and the process of generating it, would probably have adverse effects on one's mind, which means that Crooked is probably making it worse.

Crooked might have simply gotten bored of Goldi and made her into a poster child for Everafter or something? She does seem to be of some kind of noble upbringing or something, judging by her letter to her father.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Tornado Wolf » Sun Apr 19, 2009 10:42 am

There's no evidence yet that anyone generates Grimm, or that Grimm replenishes in any way. It could be there is only a finite amount within Red and there's less and less of it each time. Like a poison from an external source.

What I'm confused about is how did the Grimm leave her body / get extracted? What was that "pulse" they spoke of? Was the pulse of energy the Grimm leaving all at once? But the image in her mind's eye was of the Wolf striking into her, not exploding out from her.

Was the pulse just a shock of electricity to knock her out, after she'd finished killing everyone? If the pulse was not the Grimm or the extraction, then one might guess the rage is necessary for the extraction, and the energy or substance leaves (or is produced by) her body the more she exerts herself.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby PCHK » Sun Apr 19, 2009 1:24 pm

Good point, it's plausible either way. It's hard to speculate when we know so little.

Well, I don't think that machine she was floating in had anything to do with the extraction, it seemed to be more of a regeneration-type-machine. Maybe the Grimm is just released while Red is running around on her rampages? That would explain the daily sessions Crooked has with her.

I don't think the pulse was what knocked her out, seeing as I'm fairly certain that was Puss. The pulse may have been the Grimm leaving her body?
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Tornado Wolf » Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:54 pm

The floaty machine is definitely some recuperative device. But, it might still play a part in extracting Grimm.

If the Grimm is something that Red works up as a sweat, then the floaty machine may be a towel that mops up the sweat and stores it.


Also, the near-breakout that Puss In Boots stops and this session are two separate occassions. The Doctor very clearly identifies the cause of her KO as a pulse, not a Puss.

And yes, as I said, either the pulse was the Grimm leaving her body, or it was an electrical knockout. I don't know of any measurement that uses the abreviation "mA" however, and failed to find a match when I looked it up. Either it's a measure of electrical (or otherwise) energy I'm not familiar with, or it is a measurement of Grimm.


Something to remember is that Dr. Cricket says this is actually the first session that featured a swarm of wolves. Her dreams may always feature The Wolf, but never before this horde.

Dr. Crooked monitored the session, and was able to know what Red was seeing as she saw it. He knew that the Wolf was speaking to her. He knew she started seeing multiple wolves -- that was when he told her to take up her sword and go mad.

But if previous sessions involved berserking madness, Red might have been fighting against the Wolf himself in her mind.

Was this the first time that she spent a session hacking up personnel? But Cricket might have mentioned the toll on the employees if it was. So probably, the slaughter is routine.

Damn, but the pay must be good to willingly get hacked up repeatedly.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby stimtheone » Mon Apr 20, 2009 4:10 am

I should do this for Sheila.

Only time I saw Red happy.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby PCHK » Mon Apr 20, 2009 5:52 pm

I'm pretty sure she hacks up people routinely, based on the dialogue from the nurse to the new employee.

Oh yeah, they are different sessions. I think the pulse was probably just a stun gun of some kind or something, judging by all the people standing around Red and that she gets run through by Big Bad in her mind. Also, "it's a wonder she hit the floor and not the ceiling" and the electric lookin' panel above suggest electricity was involved.

Also, Crooked refers to the Twins at some point, (probably referring to Rosey and Posey). I wonder what they have to do with it? Perhaps as Red releases the Grimm, they collect it or something?

Crooked may not have been able to see precisely what Red was seeing, but, since this is presumeably not the first session, could be simply predicting what she was seeing based on past experience. During this fight it's notable that she is in fact fighting many of the staff, so Crooked may be referring to them as the plural and not the wolves.

Paid good or they're like robots (by robot I mean artificial in general) or something...kukuku...
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Holly Jolly Harumii » Sun Apr 26, 2009 11:58 am

is it just me or has this subject completely changed? O.o
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby slander » Sun Apr 26, 2009 12:21 pm

I don't know... There's too many words, and I have a short attention span, so I haven't been reading any of it.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Tornado Wolf » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:38 pm

Slander, you puzzle me, but I cannot find a kind way to phrase my curiosity.

In any case, the change in topic is not so drastic. The expressions picture-page offered some potential clues or insights into Red's character and the story, so we continued to speculate on Red and the story.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby slander » Sun Apr 26, 2009 7:57 pm

What the hell are you talking about?
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby PCHK » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:22 pm

Yeah, Slander's mind boggling, isn't he?

And no, the change in subject as it relates to the picture isn't that drastic at all, especially considered this is a forum dedicated to the comic and we have been starved of new pages for nearly a year or something now. So, being the starving fans we are, we must chew out this little bit of work that may be otherwise considered insignificant for all it has.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby slander » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:24 pm

Is that a compliment or an insult? Ugh, I hate thinking.
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Re: the many expressions of Red

Postby Tornado Wolf » Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:29 pm

Still can't find a kind way to phrase my observation.

Also can't think of much more that can be speculated about the story or characters. With only so much information, there's only so much we can guess at.

But hey! After he's finished with the End Zone finale, he might find the time for EverAfter again. Assuming something more pressing doesn't happen again.
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