Hamas launches attack against Israel

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Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Rough Giraffe » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:35 pm

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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Blood Lord » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:06 pm

Damn area and its thousands of years old grudges.
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Sentios » Sat Nov 17, 2012 6:03 pm

If one wanted to secretly stir shit up that would be the place to start though, neither side would think it was anyone else but their obvious enemy.
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Grey » Sat Nov 17, 2012 10:19 pm

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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby nobody » Mon Nov 19, 2012 3:28 pm

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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Sentios » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:05 pm

Not going to lie I was expecting this even though the only relation is that the US meddles in that other land. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8Q-sRdV7SY
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Rough Giraffe » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:34 am

Pardon me for asking, but how does that Jib Jab cartoon from 2004 regarding the political Right and Left in America have anything at all to do with the topic of discussion? Have you anything meaningful to add here?
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Sentios » Fri Nov 23, 2012 9:23 pm

Rough Giraffe wrote:Pardon me for asking, but how does that Jib Jab cartoon from 2004 regarding the political Right and Left in America have anything at all to do with the topic of discussion? Have you anything meaningful to add here?


The idea of "This land is my land" is the only real relation.
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:05 pm

In other words, you don't care that a terrorist organization is orchestrating attacks against a people that want nothing more than to live in peace and coexistence with their neighbors? And what does the US have to do with the conflict in the first place?
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby BobSagat » Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:27 pm

Wow, you must be a hardcore zionist if you actually buy into that.
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sat Nov 24, 2012 5:07 pm

And of course the labels are thrown around again.

I'm merely looking at the facts. Since the day of the creation of the Jewish state, Islamists have denied the Israeli as a people, not just as a nation. These people don't want to co-exist with Israel, and they don't want peace with Israel. They want to wipe them off the face of the Earth, and have said so openly. If you're in favor of human rights, there should be no doubt in your mind which side to take.

If you think that siding with a people that have been demonized and openly attacked and denied basic human rights for thousands of years by people who simply do not want them to exist anywhere in the Middle East qualifies as Zionism, then by all means, I accept that label with aplomb.

But then, knowing history is only half the battle. It's conveying it to those who don't, and more often than not, people aren't interested.
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Grey » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:08 pm

sometimes i look at history books
and i see that there are people who are oppressed and victimised
and like 9 out of 10 times it's jews
and this has been going on for as long as there have been jews
jews have been picked on for thousands of years

no one gets bullied for thousands of years without doing something to bring it upon themselves
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby BobSagat » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:41 pm

If you knew your history you'd know that the US has always been heavily invested in the existence of Israel. The US has supplied Israel with the guns, bombs and money that established Israel to what it is today.

And what Israel is today is very different from where they started.

Palestinian civilians have been made second-class citizens in the land that their grandparents called home. Palestinians must travel with papers at all times, Palestinians can be detained at any time for any length of time and Palestinians do not have any representation within the government. While an Israeli citizen is protected by Israeli civil law, all Palestinians are subjugated to military law to which pretty much anything goes.

The Palestinians do not have an air force, navy or army.

If you want to talk about who's being denied their basic human rights, it's pretty obvious who is.
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Grey » Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:10 pm

hey, how many countries in that area have UN-sanctioned nuclear weapons?

oh is that all? which country is it?

oh. shouda guessed.
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sun Nov 25, 2012 3:25 am

Grey wrote:no one gets bullied for thousands of years without doing something to bring it upon themselves
I'm not sure I understand what it is you're trying to say. Is what you're saying that Israel deserves to be bombed on a near-constant basis by its enemies? What did they do that was so bad? As far as I can tell they're being bullied primarily for archaic religious reasons.

You know, Nobody is from Israel, maybe his opinion would be a good one to get on this particular issue?

Grey wrote:hey, how many countries in that area have UN-sanctioned nuclear weapons?
oh is that all? which country is it?
oh. shouda guessed.
That's new. If I'm understanding you correctly, the UN sanctions countries to have nuclear weapons? I'm almost certain they don't, but I could be persuaded to believe it if I could find any evidence to the contrary.

If you're saying that Israel is the only country to have sanctions against it for nuclear weapons, then you're mistaken. There are several in the region. Pakistan, Iran, India, and more have been targeted by the UN for violation of the NPT.

BobSagat wrote:If you knew your history you'd know that the US has always been heavily invested in the existence of Israel. The US has supplied Israel with the guns, bombs and money that established Israel to what it is today.
And yet we also give the same or similar, and often a lot more, to their enemies. What is your point?

BobSagat wrote:Palestinian civilians have been made second-class citizens in the land that their grandparents called home. Palestinians must travel with papers at all times, Palestinians can be detained at any time for any length of time and Palestinians do not have any representation within the government. While an Israeli citizen is protected by Israeli civil law, all Palestinians are subjugated to military law to which pretty much anything goes.
Forgive me for saying so, but not one thing you said in this paragraph is actually true. I'm sure you haven't done any actual research on the subject, but if you did, you would know that non-Israeli citizens, including Arabs and Palestinians, are allowed to vote, hold a position in public office, serve in the military, and have the same rights as ordinary citizens as long as they are not inciting acts of violence against the Jewish state. You don't think that it's a legitimate idea for Israel to imprison people that are in Israel simply to destabilize the state? Where are you getting your information on this issue?

BobSagat wrote:The Palestinians do not have an air force, navy or army.
>_< Wow.

Okay, let's take a step back here. Israel is less than 1% of the Middle East and accounts for about 10% of the so-called Syrian-Palestine region. If the Palestinians wanted their OWN military, I'm pretty damn sure they could find a way to make one.

Let's think about this logically... These particular Palestinians you're talking about... they live in Israel, yes? Why would the nation of Israel make a separate military for Palestinian immigrants? Is having your own military a god-given right? As I have said, Palestinians are allowed to serve in the Israeli military. That's just a fact. What is the problem?

BobSagat wrote:If you want to talk about who's being denied their basic human rights, it's pretty obvious who is.
Yeah, it is. How about the fact that in Arab countries, women are treated like property or else like second-class citizens---for example, if a woman is raped it is deemed more important for the woman to commit suicide to restore her family honor than it is to find the rapists? (Look that shit up. It's fucking true and it makes my blood boil.) Meanwhile in Israel, women have equal rights as citizens under the law. They can vote, own property and serve in the military, just to name a few.

How about the fact that in Muslim communities, some religions are outright banned, or else their practitioners are tormented out of existence? Meanwhile in Israel, Muslims and Christians have full rights of worship.

The UN reports that Israel is far more Democratic than any Arab nation, placing about 16 in the HDR (2010), versus 39th for Bahrain (which is the first one to appear in the list). I could go on, but in the end I don't believe you're going to research anything that I'm saying and I would much rather spend what free time I have making more of my Let's Play videos.
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Sentios » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:36 am

Grey wrote:hey, how many countries in that area have UN-sanctioned nuclear weapons?

oh is that all? which country is it?

oh. shouda guessed.



To expand on that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_w ... and_Israel

Meanwhile in Israel, Muslims and Christians have full rights of worship.


Though you'll be declared persona non grata if you say anything bad about Israel at the drop of a hat it seems.

Meanwhile in Israel, women have equal rights as citizens under the law.


Except when religion says they shouldn't.
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Rough Giraffe » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:58 am

Exactly my point. Israel has never claimed to have nuclear weapons. They are recognized as a non-nuclear weapons state by the UN. In other words, the UN does not believe they have nuclear weapons. Thanks for the assist.

Sentios wrote:
Meanwhile in Israel, Muslims and Christians have full rights of worship.
Though you'll be declared persona non grata if you say anything bad about Israel at the drop of a hat.
Citation? Where are you getting your information? And, assuming you have an actual source to back up your words, what is the penalty for speaking openly against Israel or the idea of a Jewish state for a Palestinian? Recent, pertinent evidence please.
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby BobSagat » Sun Nov 25, 2012 6:24 pm

The classic "I don't believe you" response.

Detainment without charge, trial or release date

Control over water resources

Palestinians forcefully evicted from their homes

Public information of Israel's growing borders
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Grey » Sun Nov 25, 2012 8:53 pm

Rough Giraffe wrote:You know, Nobody is from Israel, maybe his opinion would be a good one to get on this particular issue?
there's gotta be someone from israel
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Sentios » Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:25 pm

Rough Giraffe wrote:Exactly my point. Israel has never claimed to have nuclear weapons. They are recognized as a non-nuclear weapons state by the UN. In other words, the UN does not believe they have nuclear weapons. Thanks for the assist.


They have no confirmed stockpile but they also won't sign the nuclear non-proliferation treaty. I don't see why we have to confirm their stockpile either, we invaded Iraq on a less certain belief that they had WMDs.

Citation? Where are you getting your information? And, assuming you have an actual source to back up your words, what is the penalty for speaking openly against Israel or the idea of a Jewish state for a Palestinian? Recent, pertinent evidence please.


https://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/worl ... omsky.html 2010 is recent enough right?
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Re: Hamas launches attack against Israel

Postby Icha » Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:49 pm

Apparently jews and muslims over there can't wrap their minds around the idea that they might be able to live together. Oh well.
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