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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby PunkyChipsAhoy » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:10 pm

Ah well in that case agreed. We all know that Dr. Seuss has more of an understanding of human nature than any hollywood film. I mean what other film lets us know that we don't enjoy green eggs and ham. Green eggs and ham representing the homosexual and the latino community.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby zepherin » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:27 pm

Rival wrote:I don't entirely agree with either of the four. Out of the ones I mentioned, I believe my world view is closest to Zola, since a bunch of my views are naturalist, though unlike him I'm not as open to socialism. Kant is doubtlessly one of the most influential western thinkers though and anyone into philosophy should form an opinion on his views.

I like Kant because I think morality should be universalized. "I don't like it when somebody does that to me I shouldn't do that to other people."

He wrote 35 books and I summed up his ethics into a sentence.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Rival » Tue Nov 02, 2010 2:36 pm

zepherin wrote:I like Kant because I think morality should be universalized. "I don't like it when somebody does that to me I shouldn't do that to other people."

He wrote 35 books and I summed up his ethics into a sentence.

Heh I agree, but a lot of philosophers came to similar conclusions, basically all who supported tolerance. Confucius had "What you do not want done to yourself, do not do to others." which is very similar to the sentence you typed.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Mathias » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:00 pm

Rival wrote:The Matrix is 11 years old and hardly that popular anymore.

Those authors are centuries old and hardly popular anymore.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Grey » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:12 pm

Mathias wrote:
Rival wrote:The Matrix is 11 years old and hardly that popular anymore.
Those authors are centuries old and hardly popular anymore.
mathias that is completely irrelevant. he was saying that because jesus was implying that rival was just mindlessly hating on anything pop-culture.

anyway, in terms of this space mission, i view anything that will increase my chances of getting into space in my lifetime as a positive, and i reckon the faster we get to mars the faster i get to go on holiday for a dip in the sea of tranquility

fuck it just send like half of germany to mars. they're efficient and hard-working people, they'll have it sorted out in no time.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Mathias » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:17 pm

Actually, it is relevant. While he is not necessarily discounting movies as a whole, he brushed aside The Matrix because it was "old and not so popular anymore[sic]." That certainly doesn't discount it.

But that's off-topic.

And it isn't really my opinion; it was a devil's advocate. I think terraforming Mars would be tubular, but the prospect of selling your life away to do it discourages my favor. And I could care less about the environment.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Rival » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:19 pm

Mathias wrote:
Rival wrote:The Matrix is 11 years old and hardly that popular anymore.

Those authors are centuries old and hardly popular anymore.

Reading comprehension is a useful skill, you should try attaining it.

JC asked whether I'm a contrarian who thinks "everything out of hollywood that is popular is shitty", so I was pointing out the Matrix is no longer popular, thus that his assumption was incorrect.

I don't consider popularity important at all. I brushed the Matrix aside, because it is entertainment for the masses and not philosophical or possesing any deep meaning. There are hollywood movies that are deep, the Matrix is not one of them.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Mathias » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:24 pm

Debaters often take quotes out of context.

And I would argue that the movie is still rather popular.

Again, this is off the topic.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby 0GravityDragon » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:04 pm

i agree that we should take the whole space thing one step at a time

and i also think that to be talking about philosophy or to be or even consider yourself a philosipher you
have to keep an open mind to others opinion to more understand the world as a whole not just your
world. and dismissing a possible message just becuz of who made it isn't being open-minded it's called bein ignant. and i aint trying to hate and i understand that hollywood does come out with alot of shallow messages from time to time, but i find it almost hypocratic to be using philosophy as your defense for keeping a closed mind.


no offense intended just stating my opinion. dont ban me i have a habit of sayin real shit from time to time...sry
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Sentios » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:10 pm

Rival wrote:As a species we should only care about our own survival, life on Earth is hard to estinguish and has survived way worse stuff than humanity. No other species cares about the whole ecosystem of the planet, so why should we? We should only care about it in so far as it can affect us, protecting the enviroment and avoiding pollution and short-sighted destruction is good and all and I support it, but if we start to see the main goal of humanity to be "cleaning" the Earth and not leaving it until everything is "fixed" then it gets a bit insane.


Fixing this planet up, at least to the point of undoing any damage that we have caused to it, does have positive applications even form your view point as it is basically terraforming on a practical scale. If we can not even tweak our native planet's conditions then we'll never terraform another planet and I don't believe we'll see bubble colonies on a planet's surface as practical long term either.

Of course I don't particularly mind not expanding to other planets myself, so long as space stations can be made livable.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Grey » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:58 pm

i really want to play basketball on the moon
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby PunkyChipsAhoy » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:12 pm

you can. if you buy. MOON SHOES.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Yoshi » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:31 pm

I want to know how they're even going to do this. Okay, let's say you get some qualified volunteers. How are they supposed to fly to Mars, build structures and have oxygen et al on hand? I just can't quite grasp how they're going to handle the oxygen thing.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby PunkyChipsAhoy » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:38 pm

Watch Sunshine. Without the people going crazy.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Ace of Flames » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:30 pm

Yoshi wrote:I want to know how they're even going to do this. Okay, let's say you get some qualified volunteers. How are they supposed to fly to Mars, build structures and have oxygen et al on hand? I just can't quite grasp how they're going to handle the oxygen thing.
That's one of the easiest parts: Everyone will carry an air-purifier with them. Mars HAS oxygen, just not enough to be a healthy atmosphere.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby BobSagat » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:54 pm

On the subject of the quality of astronauts and the crazy ones...

The process of becoming an astronaut means passing a huge slew of psychological testing. While it certainly isn't perfect, it is very rigorous. I like to think that astronauts are of a very specific breed, those with a vision or otherworldly ambition.

The title of "First Settler of Mars" or "Parent of the First Mars-born Child", if you really think about it, doesn't it just make you shiver with excitement?
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby zepherin » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:17 pm

JesusChrist wrote:Watch Sunshine. Without the people going crazy.

More like Biodome only funny.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby PunkyChipsAhoy » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:42 am

Oh I misread the question. I thought he was asking how they would get there.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Rival » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:17 am

Sentios wrote:Fixing this planet up, at least to the point of undoing any damage that we have caused to it, does have positive applications even form your view point as it is basically terraforming on a practical scale. If we can not even tweak our native planet's conditions then we'll never terraform another planet and I don't believe we'll see bubble colonies on a planet's surface as practical long term either.

I see your point, but fixing up this planet will, in my opinion, always be harder to push through than terraforming a different one because there are way too many different countries and interest groups on this planet. Look how the oil spill thing went, about 10 countries wanted to help clean it up, but the US state decided "there was no immediate need for the assistance", if we can't even co-operate on something like that, then how would an effort to change the entire Earth go?

When it comes to Mars and other planets/moons it'd be on a first come first serve basis, the first country to colonize would make all the important decisions, so while it may be harder from a technical standpoint it'd be easier decision making wise.

Mathias wrote:Debaters often take quotes out of context.

If by "debaters" you mean populist politicians, biased journalists and Internet trolls then yeah, otherwise it's not considered a good debating skill at all. Good job at not aiming very high.

Also when Grey pointed out that your response to my quote was irrelevant, you said "Actually, it is relevant", but now you claim you took it out of context on purpose. You can't take a quote out of context on purpose and at the same time think it's relevant, so which one was it? It can't be both.

0GravityDragon wrote: dismissing a possible message just becuz of who made it isn't being open-minded it's called bein ignant.

Right. I'll keep that in mind, I need to look up the word "ignant", must be some neologism cause I don't think I've heard it before, "hypocratic" is new to me, too.

Jokes aside, there's a difference between having an open-mind and swallowing every shit that's presented to you. When I'm in Częstochowa and some guy with a shaved head wants to talk to me about the "one true path to happiness" and I'm not talking to him and avoid eye contact, it's not because I'm not open-minded, it's because he's in some cult whose message is shallow and they're just after my money. So yes, at times, dismissing a "possible message" based on who presents it to you is very reasonable.

But that's NOT even what I'm doing here. Philosophy is also about being critical of worldviews that are presented to you, I'd be ignorant if I dismissed the Matrix's "message" without watching it, but I did watch it and I formed an opinion. And that opinion is as follows, it's an action movie, with flat characters, poor writing, good fighting sequences, cool special effects and level of acting ranging from good to horrible. That's all it is, an action movie. The "message" is tacked on to seem "deep" to easily impresed 1999 teenagers, and to have some characterization as to why Smith hates humans so much.

So yeah, I think citing an Agent Smith line when explaining your view on humanity looks dumb, and you can call me pretentious I don't give a fuck.

Also, don't pull the whole "dont ban me" shit, I hate it when people do that. It's always meant to be read as "Oh look at me, I'm so brave and truth loving that I'm willing to risk a conflict with the big bad Mods, because I value my principles so much". You're not risking anything, stop blowing your horn. I've been a mod for 5 years, I've never banned anyone who didn't deserve it, I've never abused my mod status and I'll never ban someone simply because he criticizes me or disagrees with me. Stop being silly.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Mathias » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:15 am

Lol, it wasn't even a serious statement. But since you basically said that that opinion wasn't "good enough," even though it is more readily relatable as it is likely more easily remembered by typical Internet users than Locke or whomever else you mentioned and, lol, it's an opinion, I decided to offer contrary points to whatever you said for the sake of argument.

I'm going to step out of this discussion now because I'm not taking it seriously at all. You, for some reason, want to debate about a trivial matter that only serves to derail the topic further.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Malumultimus » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:30 am

This is pretty much the dream of anyone who spends more than 6 hours a day on a computer.

But I can't help but think being shipped off to live on another planet for the rest of your life, forced to reproduce and bring innocent life into that situation you yourself chose, would cause a lot of people to break psychologically; especially the children born there, who obviously wouldn't be put through the same screening process as their parents.

I just picture like the cast of NGE sitting on Mars in deep silence, contemplating their own existence.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Sentios » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:39 pm

Rival wrote:I see your point, but fixing up this planet will, in my opinion, always be harder to push through than terraforming a different one because there are way too many different countries and interest groups on this planet. Look how the oil spill thing went, about 10 countries wanted to help clean it up, but the US state decided "there was no immediate need for the assistance", if we can't even co-operate on something like that, then how would an effort to change the entire Earth go?

When it comes to Mars and other planets/moons it'd be on a first come first serve basis, the first country to colonize would make all the important decisions, so while it may be harder from a technical standpoint it'd be easier decision making wise.


I won't deny that the divisive behavior of current human society prevents global cooperation, however that does not mean I'm wrong. Rather if we can't even work together over obvious problems, on a planet where we already have a massive presence, how can you expect us to change a planet where we have nearly none? Even if we could say terraform Mars, spreading our society as it is today would only be a scaling up of the divisive relations. In fewer words I'm saying that humanity as a whole isn't mature enough to spread through the stars yet, using our inability to cooperate on important matters as an example of this.

The idea of a colony on Mars taking instruction from say America or China is also very silly. It may be that way for a while but how many countries still have colonies?
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby EagleMan » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:14 pm

Malumultimus wrote:But I can't help but think being shipped off to live on another planet for the rest of your life, forced to reproduce and bring innocent life into that situation you yourself chose, would cause a lot of people to break psychologically; especially the children born there, who obviously wouldn't be put through the same screening process as their parents.

I don't see how the children would be much affected.

Humans for most of history have been raised through some pretty terrible and squalid conditions.

If the child's born there, they won't miss what they haven't had. And if they're actually allowed to have children (they would obey orders of course), then obviously the situation they have at their base is an incredibly positive one for it to merit the go-ahead for allowing children.

And Sentios if a full-fledged colony is actually established.. then clearly transportation between the planets will be easy. Separation movements are incredibly harder to achieve today compared to previous centuries. They'd have even less of a chance in the future. A fresh start would also count for a lot too. We wouldn't have to go through the Industrial Age again and reinvent "green" technology, we'd arrive there technology and knowledge in hand.
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby 0GravityDragon » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:23 pm

Rival wrote:[
0GravityDragon wrote: dismissing a possible message just becuz of who made it isn't being open-minded it's called bein ignant.

But that's NOT even what I'm doing here. Philosophy is also about being critical of worldviews that are presented to you, I'd be ignorant if I dismissed the Matrix's "message" without watching it, but I did watch it and I formed an opinion. And that opinion is as follows, it's an action movie, with flat characters, poor writing, good fighting sequences, cool special effects and level of acting ranging from good to horrible. That's all it is, an action movie. The "message" is tacked on to seem "deep" to easily impresed 1999 teenagers, and to have some characterization as to why Smith hates humans so much.

Also, don't pull the whole "dont ban me" shit, I hate it when people do that. It's always meant to be read as "Oh look at me, I'm so brave and truth loving that I'm willing to risk a conflict with the big bad Mods, because I value my principles so much". You're not risking anything, stop blowing your horn. I've been a mod for 5 years, I've never banned anyone who didn't deserve it, I've never abused my mod status and I'll never ban someone simply because he criticizes me or disagrees with me. Stop being silly.



and thats your opinion and as for the "don't ban me" my dad was fired from work because he filed a complant for being assulted i'm sorry if i don't think i could get banned by a mod that i dont know abuses his "banning rights" (i guess). but i just don't want any trouble man so i'm backing outta this
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Re: "Tell them to make it count."

Postby Jay » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:44 pm

I like the people who think opinions are inherently valuable despite content.
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