Vegedus wrote:Gravity on the planet doesn't have to be higher. How high the gravity is depends on how dense the planet is, which we don't know. It's *probably* going to be higher, especially if it isn't an gas giant, which it'd need to be for us to live there at all, but it's anyones guess exactly how much.
zepherin wrote:We will always need resources and a planet that is temperate and 5 times the size of earth would make an excellent planet for a colony. Assuming theoretically we could get to a planet 20 light years away in a reasonable amount of time. Probably with bending space and moving faster in combination with each other. we throw up some whether satilites (technically we are capable of this now but it is horribly expensive) to maintain temperate conditions and start building. A colony capable of supporting 20 or 30 billion people would be advantageous.
EagleMan wrote:Oh sure a colony's fine, but I just hear people always speak of this as if we're going to stripmine a planet or something.
I don't get how we're supposed to withstand the gravity. I don't know the limits of the human body for what g level it can permanently withstand (some very high g forces can be endured but only nonlethally for a dependent amount of time). The first few weeks of being there would also be incredibly arduous, unless this training was done in-flight. Either way it'd be a very grueling experience, because gravity would be adding probably about 50 something pounds to everything you're doing. And of course one would be shorter.
Mo Yeongsu wrote:And I'm optimistic enough to believe that we as a society aren't monsters and could be benevolent visitors to an alien world. The reason we have been monsters throughout our history is because we're programmed by evolution to seek out the best resources and means to survive and to take it by force when necessary. Once we obtain better living conditions we begin advancing science, technology, art and the whatnot. Only in recent centuries-decades even-has our quality of life improved enough to let our higher moral standards evolve. We have a long way to go, but I believe (barring any apocalyptic scenarios) that we are at a level where we the foundation for an Utopian society can be laid.
Sentios wrote:I'd like to know more about the human bodies' gravity tolerances as well, maybe NASA will do something useful after it stops getting money to galavant between planets (now in 2013 instead of this year). My personal theory is that the human body is highly adaptive to it's environment, within reason, and given sufficient time to adjust could handle several times Earth's gravity. This would be done either in the orbit of an alien world or on flight there simply because space stations and spaceships need the ability to simulate gravity for them to be of actual use to us.
Sentios wrote:Our oldest societies (the hunter gathering sort) were far more peaceful than our medieval societies, know why? They'd die if they were constantly killing and stealing from each other. So I ask where did this 'programmed by evolution' thing come from? Unless you expect me to believe that it coincidentally popped itself in there after the neolithic revolution and only in those humans who started farming instead of gathering I'm going to have to call bunk. Human nature is a concept invented in modern day to give the false idea that 'this is how we have always been' (referring to the modern world in all its greed) in order to serve as justification and give people the idea we can't change it.
Vegedus wrote:While our muscles might be able to adapt, I'm not sure our bones and various organs would be able to adapt to gravity several times that of earth. There's so many complex systems in the body, that is all affected by gravity in one way or another, I'd be surprised if some of them didn't break completely, unable to function at all, even with training.
But who knows. It's certainly an interesting topic. I wonder how higher or lower gravity would shape evolution.
DaCrum wrote:It is very likely though that if you go onto a planet with more than 5Gs with no prior training or anything, you'll die. See jet fighters and the training they go through to survive flight.
Eddieblefeces wrote:you know dat hydron colyder dohicky is gonna try and prove dark matter exists.
They're being tossed around however (rather violenty I might add) Crum. Try to remember just a specific instance from a rollercoaster where you just felt the force going against you and you felt a lot more. It shakes you around a lot like a jet plane would but try to recall the specific moment. That's what you'd have to live with, except it would be constantly.
Sentios wrote:Problem I have with that is just because you can make something exist in a lab doesn't mean it exists in nature. Even if we could make it though we still can't detect it, how would we prove it? A + B = Nothing detectable = Dark matter ?
Eddieblefeces wrote:Not realy, with the way technology is evolving, 100 years at the least 150 at the most, you have to factor in that possibly we would find shortcuts to close the gaps. Did you know we can teleport atoms for short distances?
NASA mostly concentrates on temporary high gs and long-term low gs. I don't know of any research on chronic high gs offhand, but I would think that fat people would be a rough approximation. Assuming that's the case, up to a few gs would be livable with greater risk of chronic conditions, but several gs might be more than anyone can handle through acclimatization alone.Sentios wrote:I'd like to know more about the human bodies' gravity tolerances as well, maybe NASA will do something useful after it stops getting money to galavant between planets (now in 2013 instead of this year). My personal theory is that the human body is highly adaptive to it's environment, within reason, and given sufficient time to adjust could handle several times Earth's gravity.
Actually, hunter-gatherer societies had rates of violent deaths that far exceed any modern society. The violent death rate mentioned there of 30-50% well exceeds the death rate of World War II on a per capita basis, even among the countries hardest-hit. Death statistics for medieval societies didn't show up on a quick search, but I thought they were mostly caused by disease and famine. These articles seem to agree on the violence front.Sentios wrote:Our oldest societies (the hunter gathering sort) were far more peaceful than our medieval societies, know why? They'd die if they were constantly killing and stealing from each other.
"What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun." People have been jerks to each other since time immemorial, and if you want to talk about what people are generally like (their nature, say) that should be taken into account.Sentios wrote:Human nature is a concept invented in modern day to give the false idea that 'this is how we have always been' (referring to the modern world in all its greed) in order to serve as justification and give people the idea we can't change it.
...You don't understand the definition of a light year, do you? There's 20 of them between these planets. According to your math, we have the lifespan of mice.EagleMan wrote:I don't get how it'd just be a couple generations to get there.
You'd either be able to make it relatively quickly due to some amazing discovery in the field of physics that lets you go past the speed of light (and we can at least hope that it won't be something like barely over the speed, but substantially, incredibly so), or you'd end up having dozens (perhaps upon dozens) of generations on a ship rather than just a few.
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