Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Malumultimus » Fri Oct 01, 2010 2:41 am

Monkeys85 wrote:This is interesting, if we ever get there we can ruin that planet too!


Why do people act like we're unrelenting monsters? There's almost 7 billion of us on this planet and it's still far - far - from inhospitable. People act like, "Any day now... Any day now... And POOF! America will be gone and if you want to take a bath you'll have to walk to the goddamn ocean!"

Also, everyone apparently believes there's intelligent life out there... Alright. Fine. But why are they always more civil and peaceful and productive than us? It's just as likely...actually, moreso...that they'd be worse than us in every way, since they clearly haven't contacted us yet.

Isn't it more likely we'll end up being the visitors we always write about visiting us?
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Jay » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:08 am

To be fair, if some multiple generations actually manage to live on a intergalactic spaceship for the entirety of the trip, they're probably going to have some extremely frugal, peaceful values considering the reality of their livelihoods for several decades or centuries.

So you could argue, without technology making that sort of travel negligible or comfortable or easy to supply throughout, it would actually be the multi-generational and resource tight nature of the very journey to the other planet that would make everyone on board that much more opposed to waste and aggression.

Otherwise, it's way more likely that mission just falls apart of goes to hell and we never hear again from it.

*cough*
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Monkeys85 » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:10 am

I don't think we are complete monsters, I just think we are naturally selfish and give the middle finger to anything on the planet to make our lives easier. Too much garbage? Dump it in the ocean! need wood? cut down millions of trees in the amazon to make fine furniture. Not to mention we are capable of being extremely cruel to each other and to other species. We kinda do ruin everything we touch. We are starting to change a little though, environmental awareness is increasing, so if we don't nuke ourselves over some silly argument before we can reach this planet then I think We will treat it well.

On the Alien thing...Well, I do Believe there is life out there, but intelligent life might be extremely rare, for the same reason we could be wiped out...nuclear war, environmental disaster,
over-population, etc.

This video is an interesting watch, its about the drake equation.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Jay » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:19 am

I'm sure your government is really pleased to know there is another easily programmed drone of a teenager who's just beside himself about his ability to recite a bunch of generic, Cynicist maxims.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Rival » Fri Oct 01, 2010 5:35 am

Jay wrote:I'm sure your government is really pleased to know there is another easily programmed drone of a teenager who's just beside himself about his ability to recite a bunch of generic, Cynicist maxims.

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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Vegedus » Fri Oct 01, 2010 6:05 am

I like this blog post for being a bit more "sciency" about it. The upshot is that while the planet doesn't have to be much like earth, or habitable in the least for life (crushing gravity, gas giant, lack of atmosphere being some of the possible problems), but it's still an exciting discovery we've already found a planet like this.

Jay wrote:I'm sure your government is really pleased to know there is another easily programmed drone of a teenager who's just beside himself about his ability to recite a bunch of generic, Cynicist maxims.

Huh, how does that help the government? Does cynicism improve the economy somehow?

Malumultimus wrote:Also, everyone apparently believes there's intelligent life out there... Alright. Fine. But why are they always more civil and peaceful and productive than us? It's just as likely...actually, moreso...that they'd be worse than us in every way, since they clearly haven't contacted us yet.

Heh. I remember one science guy once saying that other, intelligent life is inevitable due to the size of the universe, and the reason it hasn't contacted us yet, is because it's busy exterminating itself.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Rival » Fri Oct 01, 2010 8:01 am

Nah, Jay means that the "we destoy earth" reasoning is very often used when the government or media wants to have the citizens support some new policies. And since Monkey repeated a bunch of often used terms in his post, Jay suggests that Monkey is easily programmed by propaganda.

Anyway, I'm on neither side of this, I just really liked how Jay worded his post.
Vegedus wrote:Heh. I remember one science guy once saying that other, intelligent life is inevitable due to the size of the universe, and the reason it hasn't contacted us yet, is because it's busy exterminating itself.

Eh I think that's a short sighted view, a bunch of very successful human civilazations became stuck up and turned to isolationism(Ming Dynasty China, early 20th century USA), so I don't see why people constantly assume aliens either have to have wars, or be space explorers. Maybe they just managed to have one hegemonous civilazation, decided status quo is awesome, and that exploring space is unnecessary?
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby BobSagat » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:36 pm

Rival wrote:Anyway, I'm on neither side of this, I just really liked how Jay worded his post.


I liked it too. :D
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Sentios » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:45 pm

Doctress Who wrote:I think that's very optimistic. Back in the 80's they thought we'd all be riding around in hover cars by now. Progress usually takes a long time to get anywhere.
And that's assuming there is life on that planet that can be 'contacted'. Just because there's a chance of life, doesn't mean it will be sentient to a human extent.


We might have been, had even a 1/20th of the funds from the military been put to that use. Flying cars we most certainly would have, might even have the required autopilot infrastructure (humans manually flying thousands of tons of metal over head won't happen).

This is in addition to what Jay said.

DaCrum wrote:IT'll be a while until we get there. Between finally canceling that failure of a shuttle program, and the fact that it's millions of miles away, it may be a very long time.


20 light years according to /sci/

Malumultimus wrote:Why do people act like we're unrelenting monsters? There's almost 7 billion of us on this planet and it's still far - far - from inhospitable. People act like, "Any day now... Any day now... And POOF! America will be gone and if you want to take a bath you'll have to walk to the goddamn ocean!"

Also, everyone apparently believes there's intelligent life out there... Alright. Fine. But why are they always more civil and peaceful and productive than us? It's just as likely...actually, moreso...that they'd be worse than us in every way, since they clearly haven't contacted us yet.

Isn't it more likely we'll end up being the visitors we always write about visiting us?


Ecologically, ethically, and rationally we are monsters. If we are naturally so then we're born monsters and if we were made that way by ourselves then we're even more ghastly. 'Far' is relative, we might be far from running out of water (only thanks to advancing desalination systems) but if you look at the size of the rain forest and the expansions of the certain deserts you see 'far' more immediate problems.

The reasoning is that in order for intelligent life forms to reach this planet they would have had to be at some point civil (to themselves) in order to produce the technology to do so and survive a trip across the stars. The simple justification is that wars cost too much in lives and resources, advances can be made that way but they can also easily be lost. Also if they were worse then us we wouldn't have to worry, they'd have killed themselves off in global nuclear war (or the like).

Huh, how does that help the government? Does cynicism improve the economy somehow?


It actually does to a certain extent, the worse people feel the more they seek immediate happiness. Quite often this means they buy products or services.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Vegedus » Fri Oct 01, 2010 12:57 pm

Rival wrote:Eh I think that's a short sighted view, a bunch of very successful human civilazations became stuck up and turned to isolationism(Ming Dynasty China, early 20th century USA), so I don't see why people constantly assume aliens either have to have wars, or be space explorers. Maybe they just managed to have one hegemonous civilazation, decided status quo is awesome, and that exploring space is unnecessary?

Ya, a similar thought occurred to me as well. No one says other intelligent life out there neccesarily wants to contact us or travel out in space at all.

Personally, though, I'm not really convinced that fast space travel is "inevitable". Crossing a "short" distance like 20 au is theoretically possible, in a reasonable number of years, but still practically impossible. To ever make space travel convenient, there'd have to be some major breakthrough in science, some undiscovered means, that may not exist at all.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Ace of Flames » Fri Oct 01, 2010 3:41 pm

zepherin wrote:If your going to with the username. Commit to it. I approve.
   So that's why you want me dead!   

Cool planet, bro.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby zepherin » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:02 pm

Ace of Flames wrote:
zepherin wrote:If your going to with the username. Commit to it. I approve.
   So that's why you want me dead!   

Cool planet, bro.

Oh? I don't want you dead. Your antics amuse me at times.

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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby PunkyChipsAhoy » Fri Oct 01, 2010 7:03 pm

yes dance for zeph.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Ace of Flames » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:28 am

Now that I've read this page, I realise the intelligent discussion that I interrupted. I am too ashamed to dance.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Vegedus » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:33 am

You could always cite some scientific facts to make up for it.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Morpheus » Sat Oct 02, 2010 6:49 pm

No, it would be better if he danced.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby EagleMan » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:20 pm

If we'd be advanced enough to reach a planet like this, then the simple fact remains that we're also going to be advanced enough to the point where it'd be completely unnecessary to exploit its resources or "ruin" it or however you'd like to call it.

Even if other habitable planets are out there, we are still on our own for a very, very long time. Most people don't realize just how big the universe is. Actually we don't even know, because there's more stuff past the visible universe (because its light hasn't reached us yet), and so it's impossible to know how far that section of space goes.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Mathias » Sat Oct 02, 2010 7:22 pm

Its light hasn't reached us in millions of years? Wow. Isn't there some dark matter out there in cloud-form preventing light from passing through?
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby EagleMan » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:05 pm

No, the light wouldn't have reached us because a nebula must first condense into a protostar then it has to be kickstarted a supernova to eventually become a star. Then the star will give off light then after enough time it will reach us. The fact is there will always be sections of the universe we can't see from Earth. Once that light reaches us, there will be sections beyond that area just starting to give off light which will take a similar (but slightly longer) period of time to reach us.

I don't really know what you're talking about with the 2nd bit though.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Mathias » Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:18 pm

Learned about it in Astronomy.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Sentios » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:16 pm

But for all intents and purposes dark matter is invisible to us Mathias... it only exists as a part of our mathematics.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Mathias » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:20 pm

Huh, the professor didn't explain it that way.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby Sentios » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:41 am

We only know of dark matter because our calculations say the visible universe doesn't contain enough mass to keep itself from flying apart.
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby EagleMan » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:52 am

Yeah, so far it's just something that's predicted, not something experimentally proven.

They ran the calculations for gravity and saw that the visible matter that composes the universe does not give off the gravitational pull it should, it should actually be much weaker based on the actual information available to us. So they named the matter they can't see that's bolstering the force of gravity dark matter.

This assumes gravity doesn't change but whatever (even "constants" of physics have changed over time or place, I was trying to remember what exactly, but I found this recently dated piece which has no familarity to me but it works).
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Re: Scientist find possible inhabitable planet

Postby zepherin » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:25 am

EagleMan wrote:If we'd be advanced enough to reach a planet like this, then the simple fact remains that we're also going to be advanced enough to the point where it'd be completely unnecessary to exploit its resources or "ruin" it or however you'd like to call it.

Even if other habitable planets are out there, we are still on our own for a very, very long time. Most people don't realize just how big the universe is. Actually we don't even know, because there's more stuff past the visible universe (because its light hasn't reached us yet), and so it's impossible to know how far that section of space goes.

We will always need resources and a planet that is temperate and 5 times the size of earth would make an excellent planet for a colony. Assuming theoretically we could get to a planet 20 light years away in a reasonable amount of time. Probably with bending space and moving faster in combination with each other. we throw up some whether satilites (technically we are capable of this now but it is horribly expensive) to maintain temperate conditions and start building. A colony capable of supporting 20 or 30 billion people would be advantageous.
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